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Topic: Ricks: Bakelite vs. Hollow |
Doug Freeman
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 27 Sep 2008 10:30 am |
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I have a few solid body lap steels of different makes (National, Supro, Vega, etc.) but no bakelite Ricks. However, I have a buddy's '50s Rick here, putting new tuner buttons on it for him, restringing, cleaning up, etc. It's the bronze/coppertone model from the '50s, with the peghead cover, 1-1/4" horseshoe pickup, and I assume a hollow metal body. It also seems to be stuffed with paper and has resin or something inside that's crumbling a little and rattling around in there. Is that typical?
Anyway, I'm kind of struck by how chimey this guitar sounds compared to my solid body lap steels. Do these hollow Ricks tend to sound a lot different from the bakelite ones? And how much difference is there in sound between a later 1-1/4" horseshoe pickup and the pre-war 1-1/2" version? |
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Frank Welsh
From:
Upstate New York, USA
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Posted 27 Sep 2008 1:25 pm
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Doug, I have a metal body Rickenbacher with the newspaper stuffing (dated 1932) and the crumbling hard substance in the back of the inside at the end where the strings anchor. My dealer told me that black stuff was to add mass and thus sustain. When most of it crumbled away, I lost some sustain, noticeable in the upper registers.
Those metal bodies with the horseshoe pickup gave a mighty sound - full of punch and personality. Unfortunately, the passing of time takes it's toll on these instruments
Enjoy yours. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 27 Sep 2008 6:07 pm
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Frank, are you referring to a frypan? The hollow body sheet metal type were not around in 1932. Rick Aiello knows about the dates they were introduced.
The only one I worked on was a Silver Hawaiian, and I don't know what year it was. |
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Frank Welsh
From:
Upstate New York, USA
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Posted 28 Sep 2008 4:12 am
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Bill, not the Frypan, but the guitar shaped hollow aluminum one...I have it as the N.S. model in a 1933 Rickenbacher catalogue. Here is the picture of mine..
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 28 Sep 2008 5:20 am
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That "achieved" 1933 catalog on the RIC site ... is placed in the wrong decade ... 
Yours is a postwar Model NS ... circa 1946 +
| Quote: |
| I have a metal body Rickenbacher with the newspaper stuffing (dated 1932) |
??? ... at that point in time ... the only steels that were being made by Rickenbacher ... were frypans ...
Maybe Adolph and company were pack-rats ... and stockpiled newspapers ... 
Anyway ...
I for one ... love the hollow bodied Rickys ...
As far as that black material ... it's in my prewar A25 frypan, Silver Hawaiians, Model 59 and postwar NSs ...
It's some sort of creosote-like compound ...
I once chipped some away ... to install a new potentiometer ... and boy was I sorry ...
I quickly put some silicon caulk over the "open wound" ... to stop the stench from diffusing through the whole house ...
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 28 Sep 2008 10:35 am
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It sorta makes you wonder if the generation now at Rickenbacker know their own history.
Their new guitars (rock style) are beautiful guitars (and expensive) A friend has two, one being a 12 string. It's the first rock style solid body I ever saw in a 12 string. ( I don't get out much  ) |
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Andy Zynda
From:
Wisconsin
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Posted 29 Sep 2008 10:51 am
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Doug,
Every "Rick" with that horseshoe pickup sounds better than any other lapsteel, at least to my ears.
More chime, better sustain, and a bigger, richer tone overall.
I have a Stringmaster, a Custom T8, a National New Yorker, a Supro D6, and one Ricky Bakelite.
I also did some work on a Ricky hollowbody, just like the the one in the picture.
Sonically, the Rickys far outshine all the rest of my steels, the Supro D6 being the closest, followed by the Custom T8.
-andy z- |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 29 Sep 2008 11:26 am
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Overall, the current bunch at Rickenbacker has no clue to their own magnificent history past the Beatles, other than the little they may notice in a book. Ask them about a horseshoe PU like Bobby Ingano did years ago and you'll get a blank stare.
Only the few execs that got their panties in a bunch when Rick and Jason started making their versions of the horseshoe know about this PU and what they know of it's origins and quality is certainly in question. |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Sep 2008 11:34 am
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Yo Doug, good to see you on board.
| Quote: |
| And how much difference is there in sound between a later 1-1/4" horseshoe pickup and the pre-war 1-1/2" version? |
Apparently, there's a difference, although it might be more because the strings aren't thru-body, in the post war models. There's also supposed to be a difference in sound between the 1935 bakelite and the later '30s guitars, because they changed the formula. Rick Aiello would know the answer. |
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Doug Freeman
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 29 Sep 2008 11:54 am
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| Thanks all. Hey ya' Chas! (He's the one responsible for getting me into this steel mess, btw, what with having played regular guitar beside him for a buncha years. Some amount of osmosis, maybe?) Anyway, looks this Rick of my buddy's is the SD. It surely does sing, and is great fun to play, but I don't think its horseshoe pickup has the growl and overall output of the string-through Supro/Valco pickup on my Bronson Singing Electric. Obviously the only solution is to have (at least) one of each! |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 29 Sep 2008 3:45 pm
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| Aaahhhh.. the GAS syndrome!! More storage space required!! |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2008 5:20 am
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Here's some facts (no personal opinions) ...
I've kept records of the sets I've remagnetized for people ... what a nerd 
Alloy ...
There are very distinct differences found throughout their history ... all associated with the cobalt content of the hardened steel alloy.
With the probe of my gaussmeter placed in the "midgap" position.
Some very early prewars ... magnets charge to a maximum 130 - 150 gauss
Most prewars ... magnets charge to a maximum 180 - 210 gauss
Postwar era ... mid 40's through the 50's ... magnets charge to a maximum 210 - 225 gauss ...
Early 60's until "extinction" of real horseshoe magnets ... magnets charge to a maximum 80 - 100 gauss ...
Magnet wire size ...
From the first frypans through the mid 50's ... 38 AWG ... DC resistances of 1.5 k Ohm +/- 0.5 k Ohm.
When the company entered into the "Hall era" ... they started winding with thinner magnet wire ...
Formula Changes ... in Bakelites :
Phenol formaldehyde is Phenol formaldehyde ...
It's the variations in filler (reportedly being walnut shell powder) and the use of plasticizers (to make the bakelite less brittle) ...
That accounts for the variations in body resonance ...
Now ... in my opinion ... 
The magnet's alloy composition (IE: it's magnetic properties) ... is much more relevant ... than the magnets width (1.5" vs 1.25" ) ...
I'll take a 225 gauss postwar 1.25" over a 150 gauss prewar 1.5" any day.
Similarly ... I'll take a 38 AWG wound coil over anything wound with thinner wire ...
In Bakelites ... as for "String Through" vs "Tailpiece" ...
I personally think this isn't as big a factor as the "bridge" construction ...
The integrated bridges found in prewar Bakelites and postwar Academies/Aces ... again, in my opinion ... are tough to beat. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 30 Sep 2008 6:01 am
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| That's a good run-down on the history Rick |
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