Speaking of amps.......................

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 29 Sep 2008 8:14 am

During the earlier phases of guitar amp production, ValCo was a prominant builder........and many amps were popular among the current players; Volu-Tone, National, Oahu, Magntone, Epiphone, Gibson and the like.
About the time that Fender started hitting it really big, MUSIC MAN and Standell arrived on the scene. I know that Speedy West played thro a Music Man for awhile and I believe Jerry Byrd also had one for awhile in his studio.
What do YOU know about those two lines of amps. They always seemed to have a good reputation but where I live, seems like it was a short term love affair.

Jerry Dragon · Post by **Jerry Dragon** » 29 Sep 2008 8:59 am

I have been playing guitar out of ampegs and fenders for years. I just bought my first PSG and it sounds pretty darn good out of the Super Reverb.

Billy Tonnesen · Post by **Billy Tonnesen** » 29 Sep 2008 12:36 pm

This does back to the sixties. My favorite amp was the "Fender Bassman" the one with four 10" speakers.
I also had a Fender separate reverb box. Later on I was able to obtain a Fender Factory lab model from Leo of the "Concert" model which had the reverb built in. The control knobs didn't even have numbers on them but it was a super amp for power and tone. Somewhere along the line this amp disapeared from my garage. It would probably be collectors item if I still had it.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 29 Sep 2008 12:43 pm

Musicman was made by Leo Fender. The early models were all tube, then they went to a solid state preamp with tube power section. They have a very fender like clean tone (tho some complain about too much treble) and excllent fender like reverb. Musicman amps nerver did too well with the rockers despite being endorsed briefly by Clapton. I think this was because then hybrid models had the worst sounding "distortion" ever. I think all tube heads like the early HD130 would be good for steel. There is one for sale on the fourm now at an excellent price. others will know more than I.

Gabriel Stutz · Post by **Gabriel Stutz** » 29 Sep 2008 1:15 pm

I have a National Glenwood vibrato (2x12) amp that I think is great. I don't like it for steel that much, but for guitar it's top notch.

Gabriel

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 29 Sep 2008 1:19 pm

Noel Boggs came thro' our area on one occasion and was playing thro' a unique FENDER amp. I also had a
4x10 Bassman that was a great amp. Noel had a unit that stood perhaps four feet high and was possibly 20 inches +/- wide. I believe it had a 15 inch on the bottom, and just above that point, the cabinet appeared to be tilted back (at about the angle you'd tip your amp on a chair) and likely housed twin 10's and to top it off, it had two or three smaller, tweeter type speakers.
Never seen one like it since, either in reality or advertising literature. It was one of the sweetest amps I've ever heard particularly where Noel's big fat chords were concerned.
Anyone else see it?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 29 Sep 2008 1:29 pm

In most people's mind, I think the Music Man was just a Fender copy. Not much better or worse, just slightly cheaper. The Standel was the original "made-to-order" boutique amplifier - an improvement over the Fender and Gibson lines, to be sure, but probably not enough to justify the far higher price. These days, people still flock to boutique amps, but some of that furor is caused by speculation that they'll appreciate significantly. Back in the old days, such aspects of ownership didn't exist. It was accepted that any amp would be doing well just to hold it's original value.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 29 Sep 2008 6:19 pm

Since nobody's said much about Standel I will.

Most people are aware that the original Standel tube amps are multi-thousand dollar collectors items that have a great warm sound, especially in the studio. I have not owned one but have played through a few and they are excellent.

I personally prefer more headroom than the tube powered Standels I've played through had -- again, great at low volume -- 25W and heavy as lead -- but sings like the angels. Just not enough oomph. They do have more powerful ones but Twins gave me hernias and the Standels are HEAVY (and -- did I mention -- EXPENSIVE?).

About 10 years ago I happend upon a 120W solid state Standel Custom 15 -- with a 15" Altec 418B. They go for $500 to $750 or so in great shape. This is truly the best steel guitar amp I've ever played through. Not quite the volume of a Nashville 400 but IT KICKS. A couple of years after I scored the first one, another one came along -- in absolutely MINT condition. If I need to be louder than one, I bring both. That need doesn't arise often, but two of them in stereo w/stereo fx is really stunning.

It has great warmth -- very tubelike in its tone. It is without a doubt the most musical sounding steel guitar amp with enough power to play actual gigs I have ever played through -- and I've played through most of what's out there -- combo or rack.

What's more, they're stylish

Bob Farlow · Post by **Bob Farlow** » 1 Oct 2008 2:47 am

One of the best amps I ever owned was an old Magnatone, which had a REAL vibrato sound. It actually changed the frequency of notes you played, just like it does when you use bar vibrato. I wish I still had it.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 1 Oct 2008 5:40 am

I remember when Standel built solid-state amps in '65/'66. They had so many "watchdog" circuits in them that they kept shutting down when you pushed them even a little. I played one gig with one to try it out. It embarrassed me by constantly turning itself off. Took it back the next day! Currently my non-pedal rig is this one:

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 1 Oct 2008 12:44 pm

Well John that's odd since I've played a several different 60's Standels without any problems, solid state and hybrids and in the mid 60's solid state Standels were the choice of Emmons, Drake and Charleton, Travis, Maphis and even Wes Montgomery. They really were the state of the art of guitar amplification, the new ones still are. I have few clips on my myspace that I recorded with a forum friend's -65 solid state Standel Custom ( just one clip with steel, sorry

):
http://www.myspace.com/lesterpeabodyguitar

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 1 Oct 2008 12:52 pm

Jussi, the one I played through was a guitar amp. I hadn't started playing steel yet. It was big. Probably 4 feet tall. The bass player was trying one out too, and had the same problems. As I recall, the store owner said they were a brand new model at that time. I was playing in a biker bar. It was the headquarters of the Cleveland, Ohio, Outlaw Motorcycle gang. Tough guys. Criminal-types. They didn't like it when the music stopped in the middle of "Ginny, Take A Ride!"

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 1 Oct 2008 1:24 pm

That's hilarious John!! I believe the problem was with the music you were doin', Bob Crooks might have had some sort of a filter switch for greasy, biker rock'n'roll sound in his amps

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » 1 Oct 2008 4:10 pm

Ray,
Jody Carver who is a SGF member was a Musicman sales rep. back in the seventies. He is a good source of information concerning the company. Leo Fender had input concerning the design of the amps but was never affiliated with the company. It was started by a couple of his former employees.
I have two of the HD-130 2-12 amps, which is a EL-34 based twin with 130 watts, and a half power switch to 65 watts. They also had some 6l6 based amps, and the RD-50 which is what Chet Atkins used for touring.
Mine are great for 6 string, but I never liked them for steel (but I don't like a twin reverb either). I had a 1-15 model that I sold that was better for steel. They are built like tanks, and weigh about as much. They also have a website, I believe. They ran from about 1972 to the mid eighties I believe. Many endorsers back then: Eric Clapton, Mark Knopfler, Johnny Winter, Alabama, and more. Sleepers in value I believe.
Lefty

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 1 Oct 2008 4:19 pm

My experience with Standels is similar to Jussi's. Mine are both 1970 models, with no potted components. Ken Fox has gone through both of them and they still gig just fine.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 1 Oct 2008 8:54 pm

About the time that Fender started hitting it really big, MUSIC MAN and Standell arrived on the scene.

That's totally incorrect.

Music Man started after Leo Fender's 5-year non-compete agreement with CBS had expired...and Fender amps were well on a decline...falling off a cliff is more like it.

The high-level, collectable Standel tube amps were made in the 50's up until the 60's, when they went almost exclusively solid-state(I don't have the exact dates handy, but I believe the last of the tube amps were made in the early 60's. Standel's SS amps are, IMO WAY undervalued - one just sold for under $100 on eBay; I have a Custom 24 that is an amazing sounding amp.

But - Standel arrived on the scene at essentially the SAME time as Fender, with far less success. Music Man was Leo and crews' attempt to get THEIR (rather than CBS's) designs produced commercially, and were fairly well-received - but Fender was almost out of the amp business by the time Music Man hit its stride. And yes, the were somewhat similar in intent to the Fender BF/SF amps - made for clean tones with little thought given to decent distortion sounds. They were competing directly with an amp company that was fading, which was probably the mistake - if they had aimed at the Marshall crowd Music Man might have had more success, but that wasn't Leo's line of thinking (when I say "Leo" I mean him and the whole Fender group that was with him at MM).

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 2 Oct 2008 3:15 pm

Standel's SS amps are, IMO WAY undervalued

(Jim: shhhhhhhhhhh!)

And, as usual, Jim is correct on MusicMan history. The only REAL Fender amps at the time were MusicMan. It WAS Leo Fender, after all.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 2 Oct 2008 6:13 pm

My understanding was that Leo had little to nothing to do with MM amps, his passion was the guitars.

Having worked on many MM amps and tons of Fender I can tell you there no real similarity circuit wise to the BF and Silverface era amps.

The amps were hybrids, using transistor front ends. Some used op amps as the inverter. The power tubes were signal driven to the cathode, not at at all like a Fender amp. Some did have a 12AX7 for a crunch preamp tone. Far more difference in circuits and not really many if any similarities come to mind.

Peavey was doing hybrid amps at that same time, the early Duece, Mace,Classic and Artist. Transistor front ends as well. Later the amps hosted IC front ends and were called the VT series.

James Harrison · Post by **James Harrison** » 4 Oct 2008 7:35 pm

I bought a tube Standel with Head and Cabinet in 1962. I never had a problem, and sold it in 1966, which was a bad mistake.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Speaking of amps.......................

Speaking of amps.......................

Noel Boggs......................

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