Maximum length of plug in cord,

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Do any of you steelers know if there is a limit to the length of plug in cord for a steel before it starts to lose the signal or frequency strength?

I was placed right in front of the bass player’s amp this past Saturday night and I had a terrible time hearing my own instrument and asked the band leader if I could move to the other side of the stage. I am plugging into the band’s big Peavy amp because there is no room left on the stage for safe navigating around on the stage if I bring my amp on board. The problem is, the big Peavy amp is on the other side of the stage if I move, which will mean my plug in cord will need to be at least 25 to 27 feet long. everyone’s plug in cords go through a hole in the stage floor, under the stage and back up through another hole to plug into the amps.

Jim Means · From: Missouri, USA

Les,
I believe I would use a phantom powered direct box. Plug your steel into the direct box with a regular 10ft guitar cord and then run a lo impedance mic cord to the board.

Jim in Missouri
_________________
Musicians have to play.....They really have no choice

Jeff Hyman · From: West Virginia, USA

Les,

I agree about not wanting to be near the Bass amp. I always prefer to have Bass and Steel on opposite sides. The only thing I don't understand is how you would settle for not using your own amp. Sounds like you sacrificed all your tone control by being so accommodating. You're a better man then me. I think we have all played on a stage that was way to small. I would put my amp on a chair next to the stage in that situation.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

To answer your question, a 25 foot or so cord won't cause any problems unless it's a high-capacitance cable; you could do a 'net search for tests done by Guitar Player magazine. They've done it a couple of times as I recall, and George L's had the lowest capacitance (and smallest loss of highs); Some expensive name brands like Monster finished in the middle or botom of the pack, which shows how advertising sells.

You could run 100' of George L or good Belden cable without noticable signal loss, or much loss in highs for that matter, if your amp is set up right. Buddy Gy regularly uses a 100' cord and plays out in the audience; the late Albert Collins did as well, and played with enough treble to rip your scalp off.

Other players run a dozen or more effects, which is essentially more wire-like effect and system capacitance than a long cable run without problems.

In other words - don't worry about it.

Like the others, I'd be much more concerned about the physical layout of the amps/players on stage. The overall tone must be horrendous, as here's no way to EQ completely different instruments running into one amp. Can't you at least cram a small combo next to you for "monitoring" and use an A/B/A+B switch with the other side to a Pod, Yamaha DG Stomp or some other amp-emulating direct box...or just a small amp with a direct out running to the board?

There are a bunch of solutions to the small-stage problem, and the one being implemented is the worst of all worlds IMO.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Bo Legg · Posted 24 Sep 2008 3:25 am

Seems like moving to the other side of the stage really made things worse.
If I have to use a cord over 20' there's going to be a lot of fed back and distortion coming from me (not from the cord) toward who ever is in charge. Then I go for my Ear Monitor.
I always carry an ear monitor amp for those emergencies when you’re stuck with a bad stage setup.
PSG > Processor > Ear Monitor Amp > Amp or Board.
Ear Monitor > to one ear if no monitor return or to both ears if Monitor return.
This way I always hear my PSG as I want to hear it and makes me play better.
It is very hard to get into your pickin if you can’t stand the sound.
This lets me control the things I can and let others worry about what I can’t.
If they pay me to play PSG and then fix it so people can't hear me or make me sound bad, they're to stupid to argue with anyway and no length of cord is going to help except maybe tie a hanging knot in it and hand it to 'em.

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Les,

if you have a buffer or an active volume pedal like a Hilton, you can run very long runs of cable. But if you just have a pot-pedal and no buffer, your cable length will have a strong effect on the tone. It's all about cable capacitance. The longer the cable, the more capacitance and the more your highs get sucked away and also your pickup's treble character will be shifted downward. I recently received some audio samples of a steel tone comparing cable lengths using a rack preamp. The difference between the 3' and 8' cable was very noticeable in the highs. The 3' cable was very clear and full of sparkle. The 8' cable was much darker on top, and the mid/treble response was slightly shifted. The cable was George L's, and the capacitance is roughly 30pF per foot. So that's comparing the tone of about 90pF against 240pF. If you went with a 16' cable, that would be about 500pF and would surely be noticeably duller in tone and will alter the treble peak of your pickup's natural tone.

Capacitance on a pickup does two things. It dumps high frequencies, and also takes the resonant treble peak and shifts its frequency lower. This actually changes the tone character of the pickup.

So if you're talking about using a cable over 20' long, I'd surely want to make sure you were using some type of buffer device or an active volume pedal so that the long run of cable doesn't alter the pickup's tone too badly.

But in looking at the overall picture you describe, I simply can't imagine not having my own amp and speaker well within 6' of myself and with TOTAL control of my tone, effects, and level. The whole scenario just feels wrong.

Dang loud bass players.

Brad

Lynn Oliver · From: Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.

Brad, 30pF/ft seems high. Usually I see it quoted as 20pF/ft.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

It seems to me, somewhere back in the dark, cobweb infested crevices in my mind, that if you have a g'tar cord that is NOT BLACK or YELLOW, and it's MORE THAN 10 feet long, it has to lie absolutely flat on the floor, perfectly STRAIGHT with no bends, kinks or twists in it........otherwise the 'signal' will be distorted or otherwise NOT TRUE as it was when plucked. It was a Forumite that related this to me.

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