Newbie Question - Can you move knee levers?

Ric Truett · Post by **Ric Truett** » 13 Sep 2008 7:28 am

Can knee levers be moved - if so it is really hard to do? I have some structural problems with my left leg, and find that when I sit in a comfortable position to use everything else (pedals, other knee levers, reach the strings, etc) I am not in a good position to use the LKL lever.

I am borrowing a friend's steel and would NEVER do anything mechanical to it! I just need to know if this can be accomplished when I get my own steel.

Also I'm a big man (6'3" 300 lbs) and it seems like I need a "taller" steel if that even exists. My friend let out the adjustable back legs a little bit just so I could get under it, which of course tilted the steel forward a bit. Can one buy a "taller" steel?

These may be stupid questions but I truly do not know...I also put this in the "Beginner's Corner" topic.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 13 Sep 2008 8:36 am

Yes, most any lever is easily moved. It requires varying degrees of mechanical skill, depending on how the levers are mounted. Some are mounted (screwed) to the underside of the body, some are mounted to the rear apron, and some are suspended directly from the crossrods. Which method is used depends on the brand name of the steel, the particular model, and the direction in which the lever operates.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 13 Sep 2008 10:27 am

Most modern pedal steels have adjustable knee levers. Without moving the axle, you can adjust a screw to swing the lever one way or the other. If that doesn't give you what you need, you may have to move the axle. If you buy a new pedal steel, most manufacturers will work with you to ergonomically place the knee levers where you need them. But you might have to visit the shop for this.

Most manufacturers have standard lift kits for certain heights. And on a new instrument they can customize it to any height.

Ronnie Boettcher · Post by **Ronnie Boettcher** » 15 Sep 2008 3:04 pm

Ric, I had the same poblem, that I couldn't do the LKL and pedal A, without my foot pressing the B pedal, on a Emmons set up. I moved my LKL 2" to the left and solved my problem. On my Sho-Bud, All I needed was a 2 and 1/2 inch 10/32 machine screw, and cut the head off so I had just the 2" of thread. Bought a 10/32 rod coupling. Took off the rod from the LKL, and unscrewed the ball joint, added the coupling and the 2" threaded rod, and moved the whole shaft with the LKL left 2". Took about 30 minutes to do.

Ric Truett · Post by **Ric Truett** » 18 Sep 2008 5:11 pm

LOVE this forum!

Robert Leaman · Post by **Robert Leaman** » 19 Sep 2008 1:23 pm

Why bother with the hard things? Buy a Sierra.

Harry Dove · Post by **Harry Dove** » 19 Sep 2008 7:04 pm

I don't see where anyone addressed the taller steel issue. I have the same problem you do and needed a taller steel. I play an Emmons. I raised mine about an inch and a quarter. I put a piece of polished aluminum tubing on each front leg just above the pedal bar which raised the steel and of course made the rods too short. I then made longer rod ends from hex aluminum stock and painted them black, just like the originals but longer. The back legs can just be adjusted for the extra height. I later found that the longer ends are available from Emmons so I could have saved myself some work. That playing with the steel tipped down never worked for me, it never felt right.

Tamara James · Post by **Tamara James** » 20 Sep 2008 7:46 am

for taller steels, I believe they are called "lift kits." They also will lower steels for us other-than-tall players. Included are new legs and matching rods. DON'T depend on websites for total information. Make a direct phone call to see what is available. There are some folks around who are in the custom leg business.

I'm still working on getting mine lowered a little. For now, a pillow on the pac-a-seat seems to solve the problem.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 20 Sep 2008 1:07 pm

Actually, lift kits don't include the legs (not any I have seen anyway). The one I bought for my Carter just has two 1" tubes that fit over the botton section of the leg between the pedal bar and the adjustment clutch. Then there are (in my case 9) 1" extenders that thread onto the ends of the pedal rod to make them longer.

To shorten a guitar, I imagine you have to go to the manufacturer and get shorter rods and shorter legs. Quite an expensive endeavor. Or cut the top off the legs, re-press the threaded part back in the leg, cut off the bottom of the rod and re-thread it (or cut the top off and re-bend the hook part). Not something I would try to do. I actually bought a 9th pedal for my Carter after the fact, and the rod was 1" too long. I was successful in cutting off 1" at the threaded end and re-tapping it, but it wasn't easy. Stainless steel is hard to work with if you don't have the proper tools.

Eugene Cole · Post by **Eugene Cole** » 21 Sep 2008 6:55 am

Ric Truett wrote:Also I'm a big man (6'3" 300 lbs) and it seems like I need a "taller" steel if that even exists. My friend let out the adjustable back legs a little bit just so I could get under it, which of course tilted the steel forward a bit. Can one buy a "taller" steel?

Tilting the Steel forward a bit is something that I like to do anyhow. It helps to reduce stress on my wrists and improves the ergonomics of my instruments slightly. This reduces the amount that my wrists are cocked-up a small amount when I play (my wrists are problematic to begin with so it matters to me). Tilting the Steel forward also allows me to sit slightly higher which reduces the angularity on my hips (which are also problematic).

Typically Steels have adjustable legs so making them taller or shorter should be pretty simple (but is not always easy when lowering). On a PSG one should only have to adjust the legs to the length you really want and then adjust/modify the pedal rod lengths.

If one is shortening the rods (which you are not) I suggest that you tap the rods to the required amount prior to cutting them shorter. Also cut them shorter with an abrasive blade/cut-off-wheel as this will cut the ends squarely and will minimize damage to the end of the threads. Lastly you can dress the threaded ends of the rods with a bench grinder (a vise, a drill, and a fine-grit stone in the chuck will serve as a bench grinder if you do not own one). Dressing the end only serves to remove the sharp edge at the end of the threads which will be ultimately be covered by the rod end anyhow.

The problem many encounter when shortening is that the outer-tube on the legs is so long that the leg-clutches do no allow one to mount the pedal bar without shortening the outer-tube which can require more than basic tools and basic skills.

Richard Sinkler wrote:Actually, lift kits don't include the legs (not any I have seen anyway). The one I bought for my Carter just has two 1" tubes that fit over the botton section of the leg between the pedal bar and the adjustment clutch. Then there are (in my case 9) 1" extenders that thread onto the ends of the pedal rod to make them longer.

But getting back to your question about a lift kit. The extenders which Richard mentioned are pretty much a no-brainer option. However adding a nut (or some thread-lock solution) to lock the extenders on to your existing rods may make your life easier when you are ready to fine tune your rod lengths once the guitar is assembled. The way the extra nut is used is as follows:

Spin the nut on to the rod.
Spin the extnder on to the rod.
Tighen the nut against the extender (this locks it in place).

The 1" tubes Richard spoke of may not be required unless your leg-clutches are in poor condition (or become so at a later date). If you compress these tubes between the leg-clutches and the top of the pedal bar this could stiffen the latteral rigidity of your guitar (when using knee levers); so use the tubes or not as appropriate.

Tamara James · Post by **Tamara James** » 21 Sep 2008 7:43 am

Richard Sinkler wrote:Actually, lift kits don't include the legs (not any I have seen anyway).

Preformance did when I bought mine, April 2008. It is still listed on their site. Unavailable at this time.
http://steelguitaramericas.com/Pricing.htm
"Lift Kit Raises/Lowers guitar 1" or 2" from standard height. Includes 4 legs and 8 pedal rods"

I'm sure there are lots of other folks doing this. There is a great need for it.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 21 Sep 2008 8:48 am

Eugene is right about the lock nut. You tighten it to the top of the extender instead of to the top of the ball joint recepticle. You do need to tighten the extender to the ball end with pliers though. Other wise they will be loose and turn when not attched the the ball joint. Great idea about tapping the rod up to the length needed BEFORE cutting. Wish I had thought of that. I cut the rod with my Black & Decker version of a Dremel tool with an abrasive disk cutter. Watch out which kind of loc-tite you use. You don't want a permanenet bond as you will possibly need to readjust the rods at a later date.

Tamara, Performance is probably an exception (of course any manufacturer will sell you new legs and rods, maybe not as a kit). How much did that lift kit cost? I just noticed that Performance no longer offers that lift kit. A normal lift kit for an 8 pedal guitar is aroud $50 -$60. But, I would definately have preferred your option and may order new legs and rods for the Carter. The lift kits look ugly. Then again, I just bought the ultimate lift kit. A new Williams built to the height of the Carter with it's lift kit.

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Newbie Question - Can you move knee levers?

Newbie Question - Can you move knee levers?

thanks to all for the advice!

Re: Newbie Question - Can you move knee levers?