What makes a ShoBud sound have that sound

Scott Shipley · Post by **Scott Shipley** » 6 Sep 2008 9:17 am

I think the pickup is a big part of it, as is the wood, the mechanics, etc. Fact is, it's probably safe to say it's a combintaion of all the elements listed above, and ultimately in the hands of the player himself.

Norris Ashment · Post by **Norris Ashment** » 6 Sep 2008 10:16 am

Hay scott I couldnt agree with you more.
Sorry BOB but to say its all or mostly in the pickups is just plain nuts. I have a Magnum that has had the original pick up, a George L 10-1, a Thrutone, and a Tonealigner on it and trust me it still sounds like a Magnum buy all accounts then it should sound like my old 76 Msa or a carter starter.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 6 Sep 2008 11:18 am

What models of Sho~Bud had bodies of solid birdseye maple? I seem to remember the Super~Pro I had did. Now the Professional I just aquired has a die board (or particle board body) and birdseye veneer on it. Several of the pictures people sent me of their Professionals and Pro series guitars seemed to have the same type of construction. My Professional sounds real sweet even though the E9th has a Wallace rewound original pickup and the C6th is a Wallace True Tone. The Super~Pro I had really sounded like crap. Like B0b, I installed Lawrence pickups in mine (although they were 710's) and it help a lot. With the pot metal parts breaking on me, I couldn't get rid of that guitar fast enough. At the time, I didn't know about the forum and the people that made real aluminum parts to replace the pot metal. I would have kept it if I could get rid of those ridiculous cheap a$$ pot metal parts.

Now the 2 models did not sound even close to being the same. I would think the difference in construction (all birdseye vs die board) and the different pickups used on the different models are the big part of the sound. The pickups on my Professional has 2 rows of screws in the top and I remember the Super~Pro only having one set.

I'll be the first to admit that 99%of the time, I could not tell you what brand of guitar was being played on a record (unless I knew who was doing the session and knew what type of guitar he played.

Mention was made (and has been made several times on the forum) that when Emmons and Hughey swithed from push pulls to all pulls (Legrand first for Emmons and finally Zums for both) that people could not tell the difference. Well, I definately could.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 6 Sep 2008 11:44 am

the difference being that they still sounded so much better than you or me that it really didn't matter what they were playing...just how!

Norris Ashment · Post by **Norris Ashment** » 6 Sep 2008 12:00 pm

OK just for the record since I started this, I had a ShoBud super Pro. Biggest piece of junk I've ever set behind. I stoped calling it a ShoBud and just called it a Baldwin amoung other things. I really liked the tone though and thats with a 10-1 or a trutone didnt matter.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 6 Sep 2008 2:27 pm

Richard Sinkler wrote:What models of Sho~Bud had bodies of solid birdseye maple? I seem to remember the Super~Pro I had did. Now the Professional I just aquired has a die board (or particle board body) and birdseye veneer on it. Several of the pictures people sent me of their Professionals and Pro series guitars seemed to have the same type of construction. My Professional sounds real sweet even though the E9th has a Wallace rewound original pickup and the C6th is a Wallace True Tone. The Super~Pro I had really sounded like crap. Like B0b, I installed Lawrence pickups in mine (although they were 710's) and it help a lot. With the pot metal parts breaking on me, I couldn't get rid of that guitar fast enough. At the time, I didn't know about the forum and the people that made real aluminum parts to replace the pot metal. I would have kept it if I could get rid of those ridiculous cheap a$$ pot metal parts.

Please do not take this wrong--- I don't mean to wreck your rant, but Shobud never used particale board, even in their cheap Maverick student model. If you would clean that FLOCKING off the underside, you would see the birdseye maple--the underside of what birdseye you see on the top.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you'll have to prove that one to me. I've refurbed a few bud's in my involvement with steel guitars, and have yet to see a "particle board cabinet", let alone hear of one. Your comment is the first.

But I DO agree with you on the potmetal. That's why a few fellows are making new QUALITY replacement parts for these old cool shobuds. The pickups you used are about the best you can find to match to a shobud.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 6 Sep 2008 8:32 pm

I scraped off about 1" square from the bottom of my Bud. While it is wood (I dont know what your definition of flocking is, but this is just white paint with particulate crap mixed in to give a spreckled type appearance), It does not even vaguely resemble the birdseye finish on the outside of the guitar. My camera is not very good, but hopefully you can see the line between the veneer and the body wood. It is a distinct brown adhesive line. I have done more than my share of cabinet and counter work in my lifetime, and I can tell when something is laminated. It has the same brown adhesive line you see on your formica counter tops and guitars.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 6 Sep 2008 8:43 pm

David Doggett wrote:...there are lots of Sho-Bud models - permanent, fingertip, crossover, Baldwin, Fender, the early Pro series, LDG, pot-medal era Pro series, SuperPro, several Maverick models. They don't all sound the same....

David is absolutely right. I have two identical Sho-Bud Crossovers and they sound different...

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 6 Sep 2008 9:17 pm

Richard Sinkler wrote:

I scraped off about 1" square from the bottom of my Bud. While it is wood (I dont know what your definition of flocking is, but this is just white paint with particulate crap mixed in to give a spreckled type appearance), It does not even vaguely resemble the birdseye finish on the outside of the guitar. My camera is not very good, but hopefully you can see the line between the veneer and the body wood. It is a distinct brown adhesive line. I have done more than my share of cabinet and counter work in my lifetime, and I can tell when something is laminated. It has the same brown adhesive line you see on your formica counter tops and guitars.

Sorry, I can't see anything with "out of focus" pictures. What shobud guitar do you have?

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 7 Sep 2008 6:04 am

My fingertip sounds like a SHO-BUD and has stock pickups rewound by Harry Jackson. In fact the whole guitar is pretty much stock. And while we are on the issue of pickups, which way did they get switched for all those great hits that Hal, Lloyd, Jimmy Day, Jimmie Crawford,Buddy Charleton, and others played on? Sometimes they sound split and sometimes not.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 7 Sep 2008 6:55 am

On my first Sho-Bud (a 6139), I replaced the split pickup switch with a blend pot. I don't remember how I did that exactly, but it was pretty subtle.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 7 Sep 2008 7:04 am

Richard, the only "adhesive line" I've ever seen in that area of a Shobud body is the adhesive from installing the decorative veneer binding strip. I've seen a lot of differences in the grain patterns between the top and the bottom. But that was due to putting the best side, the select side, of the wood out.
I currently own a '59, a '63, a '67, and a '74, and have owned several others in the past. All of them had solid wood bodies. The only veneers used were the decorative strips. I am completely confident that the wood on yours is solid also. Then again, Shobud did some strange stuff!

Benton Allen · Post by **Benton Allen** » 7 Sep 2008 8:15 am

Hi Richard!

Here is a picture of the bare front panel of my Sho-Bud crossover prior to refinishing during a recent restoration. As you can see, the inlay is right on the top and bottom edges. Turned up on edge it would appear as a laminate. Could this be what you are seeing?

Let us know what you find. This is interesting.

It took me several months of research, talking and corresponding with people such as John Coop, David Jackson - among others. I also spent many hours reading, and studying photos and patents in an attempt to gain factual information prior to beginning the restoration of this old Crossover. It paid off, but what a long process! It would surprise me to learn that they actually used some type of particle board during construction, but I wouldn't be shocked! I only say all of this because I found that you never knew what Sho-Bud was coming up with next! Who would have ever thought that serial numbers would be virtually meaningless?

Cheers!
Benton

Norris Ashment · Post by **Norris Ashment** » 7 Sep 2008 8:45 am

Just thought I'da through this in. Most of you probably have read it but what the heck.May be the ShoBud sound applies to a lot of guitar brands,Wood Necks verses aluminun in a sence. May be I should have started this thread with WHAT MOST MAKES THE SHOBUD TYPE OF SOUND. No matter what Mooney milked it to the max.
This comes from Carter guitars.
http://www.steelguitar.com/askbud/askbud15.htm

The more I learn the dumber I become I'm thinking !.!??
That being said if you have two group types then what Greg and BOB said about the pickups on the Bud would make a world of sence

Richard Chapman · Post by **Richard Chapman** » 7 Sep 2008 8:49 am

It appears to me that Richard is taking a picture of the Case, not the guitar. I see the leg bag and the pedal cross bar in the pictures. the leg bar is not attached to anything.
It sure looks like the inside of my Bud case.

James Morehead wrote:
Richard Sinkler wrote:

I scraped off about 1" square from the bottom of my Bud. While it is wood (I dont know what your definition of flocking is, but this is just white paint with particulate crap mixed in to give a spreckled type appearance), It does not even vaguely resemble the birdseye finish on the outside of the guitar. My camera is not very good, but hopefully you can see the line between the veneer and the body wood. It is a distinct brown adhesive line. I have done more than my share of cabinet and counter work in my lifetime, and I can tell when something is laminated. It has the same brown adhesive line you see on your formica counter tops and guitars.

Norris Ashment · Post by **Norris Ashment** » 7 Sep 2008 9:17 am

I go with James, I can't see any thing but case.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 7 Sep 2008 9:57 am

If you look close at the top of the pics, you will see the white area which is the "flocking" on the bottom of the guitar. I included part of the case for contrast. In the top pic you can actually see one of the springs under the guitar. These are pics of the back apron. If you look right above the red part of the case, you will see the dark line, aspecially to the left of the top picture. This is the edge of the back apron. There is actually a part of this edge where I can run my finger over the 3/4" bottom edge of the back apron and feel a lip. Kind of like they laminated and did a lousy job sanding the laminate flush with the base wood. Could just be lacquer that oozed it's way past the edge and dried.

I scraped more of the paint from the area in the picture and it has the same wood as the body where I scraped the paint. No birdseye figuring. I've never seen a raw piece of birdseye maple, but I would think you would see the birdseyes on all edges.

I was wrong about the die or particle board. I was fooled by the paint job that makes it look like particle board. After scraping some of the paint off the bottom edge of the back apron, the line may be from the stain and a thick coat of lacquer. I'm not willing to scrape any of the finish off.

In the bottom pic, the white area is the bottom edge of the back apron. Because of the color and how close I had to take the pic (with a not so real good camera) the pics are hard to see. The guitar is actually sitting on top of the divider in the case. You will notice the dark blotches to the left. This appears to be either the glue having oozed out from between the laminate and base wood, or when they stained the guitar, some stain leaked over on the bottom (entirely possible) although it doesn't look blue like the guitar.

Someone asked what guitar his was. It is an early 70's (71 per the previous owner) Professional. This is the blue one that was for sale recently.

No matter what, it's a great guitar.

No need to beat this to death and let's get back on topic.

Robert Harper · Post by **Robert Harper** » 7 Sep 2008 11:13 am

I agree with Bob. I play a sho-bud/fender which from appearence in pictures has the same pickup. I also have a MSA about the same vintage. Last week I switched back to the Fender/Sho-Bd and was amazed at the tone difference. I think it is the pickups

Frank Raines · Post by **Frank Raines** » 7 Sep 2008 11:14 am

Go to >Steel on the web< page 1 listen to Waylon songs showing The Moon on steel
1) on a Professional (young Moon)
2) on a Super Pro ( Little older Moon)
OUTSTANDING

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 7 Sep 2008 11:20 am

We are still on topic. Particale board probaly wouldn't do much for tone, as would solid birdseye maple. After your explaining your picture, yes it's evident that what you see is the inlay edge. Could this be mistaken for a laminate covered cabinet? Perhaps. But that's not the case in my experience with refurbishing shobuds and seeing the natural wood cabinets from the underneath side, as well as tops, and what you see behind the endplates. And yes, it was definately not cost effective to simply wipe off excess glue, right?

Typical shobud-ism.

Here's a few pics of a typical late '70's-early '80's Pro I. I do not see any lamination going on here at all, but I'm not a cabinet maker/carpenter. Some pretty nice birdseye, I think. Enjoy.

Norris Ashment · Post by **Norris Ashment** » 7 Sep 2008 11:55 am

OK now where is this STEEL ON THE WEBB thing???? old buddie google can't find it

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 7 Sep 2008 11:59 am

It's a section of this forum. Go back and look right above "Steel Players."
Index page.

Norris Ashment · Post by **Norris Ashment** » 7 Sep 2008 1:13 pm

Has any one put a shobud pickup on a guitar built on the order of a shobud

Scott Shipley · Post by **Scott Shipley** » 7 Sep 2008 1:15 pm

Richard Chapman wrote:It appears to me that Richard is taking a picture of the Case, not the guitar.

It's a nice case though.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 7 Sep 2008 1:21 pm

Norris, check out this guitar.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=140170

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What makes a ShoBud sound have that sound

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What makes a ShoBud sound like that sound