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Topic: Today's Exposure to the Super-Skilled Player: Plus/Minus? |
Judson Bertoch
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2008 9:59 am |
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just a toss out question to see what you think...
So my question will be: Compared to 10+ years ago, is it "Okay to be an Okay level player of your instrument/can you still have fun/play for enjoyment?"
Compared to a decade + ago, today's technology (web video and DVDs: performance and instruction) allows instant access to Super-Skilled players all over the world.
Super-Skilled who:
-play with blinding speed or
-play the most complex of passages/music or
-know 20 scales in every key or
-play very difficult techniques with ease
Does that raise the bar so high that if you can't achieve that you feel relegated second class string hacker status? Can it take the fun out of playing?
Or do just you pick up what you can from them and be then happy playing at whatever skill level you can accomplish? |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2008 10:14 am Re: Today's Exposure to the Super-Skilled Player: Plus/Minus
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| Judson Bertoch wrote: |
just a toss out question to see what you think...
So my question will be: Compared to 10+ years ago, is it "Okay to be an Okay level player of your instrument/can you still have fun/play for enjoyment?"
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You can compare to 1000 years ago if you want.
It will ALWAYS be just fine to play an instrument on whatever level you want to enjoy it on. There will always be super acheivers at any skill. They give you something to strive for ONLY if you are interested in that. I know plenty of players who just know the basics and are still very happy at what they do. |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Posted 2 Sep 2008 10:25 am
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What Bill said! .. My playing sucks, I'll never be much more than a woodshed'r. I'll never be on stage, or ever have a top selling album but I have a ton fun doing it. Lucky for me, I'm easily entertained buy the simple melodys I can play.
I saw this cool account of a quote from Buddy Guy.
The story goes that Buddy had been 'challenged' by this young hot shot blues "shredder" at a jam, and afterwards Buddy Guy asked him: "So tell me, did you find the note you were looking for?"
_________________
Some misc pics of my hand crafted steels
Follow me on Facebook here |
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Bill Leff
From:
Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2008 10:25 am Re: Today's Exposure to the Super-Skilled Player: Plus/Minus
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Great thread!
Of course, the answer is obvious..."Don't worry, be happy"...
If only it were that easy.
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 2 Sep 2008 10:37 am
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No matter how good you become, there will always be someone who is better. But there is one thing nobody can do better than you; Expressing yourself.
_________________
"Play to express, not to impress"
Website - YouTube |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Posted 2 Sep 2008 2:44 pm
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| There is always a Younger Better Looking one too. |
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Rick Alexander
From:
Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 3 Sep 2008 8:55 am
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Why, thank you George! 
Seriously - it's fun at every skill level.
If you compare yourself to other players there will ALWAYS be some better than you and some not so better.
Then you will be depressed and arrogant at the same time.
I know some guys like that, it's not pretty . .
Just keep working at it and you'll get better . .
_________________
BIG STEEL |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2008 9:11 am
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I keep saying this same thing over and over. I'm sure I must sound like a broken record by now. But there are 2 aspects to art. In the nonpedal area those two aspects are exemplified by Joaquin Murphey on the technical side and by Don Helms on the side of pure expressiveness. I have never known anybody who would argue that Mr. Helms was a great technician on the steel guitar. But the EFFECT of the simple things he usually played was devastating. It is because of the IMPACT of what he played that he is talked about in the same breath as people like Byrd and Murphey and Remington. Besides my own experience which I've noted above, I have it on good authority (Jerry Byrd) that all you really have to do is play the melody with feeling and conviction and you can make a perfectly respectable showing in any venue. Now don't get me wrong. Technical skill is well worth pursuing to the extent that you can do it. My full time job makes that pursuit difficult. But basic competence is sufficient for making acceptable music in most circumstances.
_________________
Amor vincit omnia |
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Judson Bertoch
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2008 9:31 am
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great input! I actually built this question off of a post on a different boards, which read:
I once had a good friend. I taught him guitar on and off for twenty years. George just didn't have it and never will, but he was a good friend. One day he asked me what I really thought. I asked him "do you really want to know." He said yes. So I proceeded to tell him to sell all his amps, electric guitars, PA system, etc; and to keep his acoustic and bang out the few chords he could play and sing the few songs he knew. Should I relate that we are no longer friends. He practiced more than I did but there was something there, a stiffness, something, he was never going to get it. All my instructions were in vain and all his practicing was in vain. I did learn a valuable lesson though.
So I thought that since we are exposed to so many Super-Skill players in the technology age - can the fun be taken out of playing by setting the bar too high - by measuring ourselves only against the skill of the really really good players. |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2008 9:40 am
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| Quote: |
| .....but there was something there, stiffness, something, he was never going to get it. |
It sounds to me like the guy was saying that his student was missing the Don Helms element. You have to have a certain amount of that to even begin to play an instrument.
_________________
Amor vincit omnia |
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John Burton
From:
Manassas, Va
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Posted 3 Sep 2008 10:08 am
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Well, I don't really agree that "todays age" really exposes us to that much more "technically" gifted musicians then were available thirty years ago...I mean I first heard folks like Missisippi John Hurt and Doc Watson when I was around 12 many, many years ago. They inspired me to play guitar. (Now many years later...do I play as good as Doc..ummmm..NO!)
I remember listening to Les Paul and Chet Atkins LPs (and lots' of the Ventures!! Still a big Ventures nut!) years ago and getting frustrated a bit at thinking "I'll never be THAT". All of this was pre-internet. Heck, I was listening to my Fathers' LPs.
Now another side of the argument is this:
We DO have more access too more music easier...but we ALSO have more access to LEARNING resources (like this site) plus, DVD's, YOUTUBE, Tab books, etc. etc..
I wish I'd had some of the books and such available now in days when I started guitar.
Another side of it is: Not all music I enjoy is that "technically" hard to play. I mean, I LOVE listening to Son House, NOT saying he wasn't a heck of a musician, just saying TECHNICALLY he wasn't as great as lots others after that I DON'T enjoy.
Not all Musicians have to be technical whizzes to be considered enjoyable and worth listening to.
Heck, I could name a LOT of really Technically amazing guitarist who I personally do not enjoy listening to at all...and an equall number (that many kids at Guitar Center) would say "Suck" that I enjoy. |
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Charley Wilder
From:
Dover, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2008 11:33 am
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| What Bill Hatcher said! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Sep 2008 4:03 pm
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Your own comprehension of what is "good" changes as you progress. The more you advance, the more you can see, hear, and appreciate. A beginner can look at many of the youtube videos and think that most of these guys are pretty far advanced, maybe even top-notch. But as you are exposed to more and more playing, you (usually) become more and more critical and discerning. You hear more mistakes and intonation errors. You notice little timing errors and flaws in picking techniques that might still impress the average newbie.
Some players whom I used to think of as "really great" many years ago, I now only rate "average", or "good". I've learned to look at nuance, phrasing, and expression much more closely. Years ago, I thought a player who was much faster or knew more chords was always better. But I've since learned that speed and complexity is no substitute for precise, flawless technique, and imaginative playing. |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2008 4:34 pm
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Yay Donny!! 
_________________
Amor vincit omnia |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 3 Sep 2008 6:29 pm
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| Ya gotta have heart in it!! Putting your feel into the music is what makes you unique, and like no other player. Slow smooth melodies can be more difficult to play well than the fast tempo types. |
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John Bushouse
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Posted 3 Sep 2008 7:13 pm
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| Judson Bertoch wrote: |
great input! I actually built this question off of a post on a different boards, which read:
I once had a good friend. I taught him guitar on and off for twenty years. George just didn't have it and never will, but he was a good friend. One day he asked me what I really thought. I asked him "do you really want to know." He said yes. So I proceeded to tell him to sell all his amps, electric guitars, PA system, etc; and to keep his acoustic and bang out the few chords he could play and sing the few songs he knew. Should I relate that we are no longer friends. He practiced more than I did but there was something there, a stiffness, something, he was never going to get it. All my instructions were in vain and all his practicing was in vain. I did learn a valuable lesson though.
So I thought that since we are exposed to so many Super-Skill players in the technology age - can the fun be taken out of playing by setting the bar too high - by measuring ourselves only against the skill of the really really good players. |
Remind me to never ask you what you think of my playing. |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2008 7:51 pm
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I've had an interesting experience in this last year that may bear on this. I've played occassionally with a band located about 300 miles away from me. I love their sound and thought they should record a CD. They weren't enthusiastic about it because they thought we werent' good enough. The reason for that kind of thinking was that none of us is really capable of any hot licks. But we can hit the notes. And the resulting sound has alot of vitality. We did a little work together. Then someone offered us 4 free hours of studio time so we could get an idea how we were going to do. In that 4 hours it became clear that things were not going to go as smoothly as we had hoped (they had been doing live performances together for 15 years). Since they didn't really want to put any more rehearsal time in for aproject that they thought was doomed and since I didn't want to let them do their rehearsing in the studio on MY dime, we decided not to go ahead. We have now got two of our studio cuts back. Guess what they told me last weekend. "We were wrong." They just couldn't believe they could make respectable music because they didn't sound like the big time jazz people that they looked up to. Our cut of, "Boulevard of Broken Dreams," may be on youtube soon. If so, I'll post a link. Then we'll have a concrete example of what we're talking about here. Outside of just a couple of missed notes, this is a perfectly salable product. But I'll let y'all decide if and when the cut gets posted.
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Amor vincit omnia |
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