$500 Steel Guitar Deposit-Refundable or not?

Edgar Pro Case · Post by **Edgar Pro Case** » 12 Mar 2003 8:08 am

I am having a bad time with a guitar manufacturer that I had sent a $500 deposit to. It was a deal where I would play the guitar on the road for a bit for some added exposure with a well known country artist and report to the manufacturer what I liked or disliked about this or that about the guitar (steel). Well I had one and played it out once (home) and then at the request of the manufacturer I paid the shipping and sent it on to a well known steel guitar dealer in a large US city where it was sold as a NEW guitar. It really was new and had only been played out once. Then I get a second guitar and played it out two times and reported that I disliked it to the manufacturer and did he want me to return it to him? He told me that since we were only three months or so away from a major steel show he and I would both be attending that why don't I just return it to him there. I had put this guitar in the case after realizing it wasn't for me and there it sat until delivered to him at a big steel show again in EXCELLENT condition. He then sold it to another well known steel guitar dealer at the show who in turn sold it for new. Here is my question, since this was an endorsement kind of deal and I paid the shipping from myself to the first dealer and both guitars were in EXCELLENT condition and then sold for new by the dealers at a later date, I feel I should be intitled to at least a portion of my deposit back because the builder was not out anything and really gained in the end by getting a new price where he wouldn't have from an endorsee who was getting a special rate. This builder has had a year to date from the time I returned the last guitar in EXCELLENT condition to him and has not tried in ANY way to remedy this situation. Any pro players that understand the endorsement end of it please reply . Otherwise lets keep this as civil as we can and I won't mention any names unless I'm pushed to that point. Thanks and have a great day! WC Edgar It must be added that neither of these guitars had my complete setup installed on them because the builder wanted to make sure they (the guitars)were going to work out for me before finishing the complete kneelever setup. WC <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Edgar Pro Case on 12 March 2003 at 08:22 AM.]</p></FONT>

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 12 Mar 2003 9:28 am

WC,
I had a problem with an amp company I had an artist deal with. I used there gear because I really liked it. I tried out a different model of amp head for a backup and realized that I couldn't use it. I sent it back(in perfect condition) and was charged a $200 restocking fee. It ended up being an issue of me not understanding there policies being as the artist rep wanted everybody to like him so he never explained anything. My relationship with the amp company is strained at this point although I still think they make fantastic gear. Now I try to make everything clear from the start.

Bob

Edgar Pro Case · Post by **Edgar Pro Case** » 12 Mar 2003 11:48 am

Thanks for the reply Bob, Any other artist endorsements I have ever had whether it was an amp or strings or guitars or whatever had a contract with the endorsement that stated some of the policys required to the artist but in this case there were none. Up until this point the builder in question and myself were good friends and spoke quite frequently. To make bad matters worse the un-named builder ordered a new Toteseat from us and ordered it with a 18" seat height. When we delivered his seat to him at Scotty's last year he said it was too short and he didn't want it, so being the good person I am, I took it back. It's kind of tough when you build someone a special seat with the color and height of their choice and put extra time and effort into it only to have them refuse it for some bogus reason. This un-named builder WAS a dealer for our "Toteseats" but has now been dropped. Thanks, WC

Roger Osbourn · Post by **Roger Osbourn** » 12 Mar 2003 1:04 pm

Sounds like a horror story I got caught in the middle of last year.Maybe we should exchange notes. Sure sounds familiar. Best of luck to you.Roger

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 12 Mar 2003 3:25 pm

It seems to me that if you are truly just testing guitars for the manufacturer as you imply and doing them a favor by exploring performance on the road you have a case for a refund. However, if you ordered a guitar and gave a down payment on it, used it for awhile, payed nothing more, then decided you didn't want it and returned it, you would not be entitled to any reimbursement. It would be unusual for any manufacturer that I know of to front a guitar to any artist for any length of time unless the artist was someone of the caliber of the upper eschelon (ie. Franklin/Hughey/Maness, etc.) and, to my knowledge, even they pay for their guitars.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 12 Mar 2003 3:48 pm

I'll have to agree with Jim Palenscar on this one. To me a "deposit" means a downpayment with intent to purchase.

Put the shoe on the other foot. If this manufacturer had put a $50 deposit on one of your seats, received it and used it for a while, then told you he didn't like it, and returned it at a later time, how much of his deposit would he be entitled to?

I don't see how the amount it was resold for enters into the equation. While you had the guitar, the builder was without the money he would have had if he had sold it someone who paid for it on delivery.

Edgar Pro Case · Post by **Edgar Pro Case** » 12 Mar 2003 5:11 pm

Thanks to everyone that has emailed me and didn't want to post, I really appreciate your help. Also thanks Jim P., Roger and Bob for your input. As for Jim Smith, he has based his opinion what the builder in question has filled him in on and doesn't have any idea what went on between myself and the builder. Believe it or not there are a lot of players out working the road that get special deals other than the few players mentioned by someone in the previous post. First off Jim Smith, we don't take deposits on seats and they are paid for at the time the order is placed unless it's a dealer and then they now pay in full before the product is shipped. The dealer in question was also what we folks in the business refer to as a "slow pay" as we did not receive
payment in full on his seat order for some time after he had received them (delivered to him last year at Scotty's). Please stay out of something your buddy (the builder in question)has MISinformed you about. Warmest Regards, WC Edgar

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 12 Mar 2003 5:42 pm

This is starting to look pretty tasteless, IMHO.

Edgar Pro Case · Post by **Edgar Pro Case** » 12 Mar 2003 6:08 pm

Yes Jim let's shut this one down, we wouldn't want to make any waves now would we? After all don't you play one of this brand of guitars? Bob, let's close her down and everyone can look for us on Judge Judy if the backlog isn't too long, if it is I'll wait. WC

Edgar Pro Case · Post by **Edgar Pro Case** » 12 Mar 2003 6:28 pm

My deepest apologies to everyone for trying to vent my frustration here. I just thought that after the MSA problem with deposits and then the Emmons mess that someone would help me get my problem with a builder straightened out with no hard feelings. Thanks all, WC Edgar

Post by **Joey Ace** » 13 Mar 2003 8:37 am

Closing per WC's request.