E13th - need help with F#

Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

I'm putting E13th on a 10 string guitar. Since I have the extra strings I want to include at least one F#. To me this seems like the logical choice.

Hi to Low.

G#
F#
E
C#
B
G#
E
D
B
E

I have seem some versions of the tuning where strings 1 and 2 are reversed. (F# as string 1)
What advantages are gained by doing this?

Also some have an F# in the lower octave. I haven't discovered the full use of the F#'s I guess other than the sus 2/sus 4 grips(1,2,4) & (2,4,5) and as an add 9 chord. What am I missing out on without the low F#?
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Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

How about Tom Morrell's ten string tuning.

G#
F#
E
C#
B
G#
F#
E
D
E

As for that other matter, I don't play this tuning. But I can see a half diminished chord on strings 9-7-6-5. E9th on 8-7-6-5. A Bm on 9-7-5. An E6/9 on 1-2-3-4-5. A C#m7 on strings 8-6-5-4-3. And that's just at first glance.
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C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I would suggest the Tom Morrell tuning also.

c.
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Johnne Lee Ables · From: Minnesota, USA

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

I suggested the Tom Morrell tuning here because Mr. Gefell was so close to it to begin with. Also, because Mr. Gefell was looking for a 10 string tuning.
Having said that, I would also say that I would never use that low E string myself. So I consider even Mr. Morrell's tuning to be a 9 string tuning.
As far as Mr. McAulliffe goes, (E-C#-B-G#-F#-D-B-E) hi to lo if I'm not mistaken. Again, I would never use the low E myself. So I would call this a 7 string tuning. In fact when experimenting with the tuning I even leave the low B off and play it with 6 strings.
I have to say, though that in tunings other than C6 I am strictly experimental and NOT a real player. An 8 string form of the E13, probably something like (G#-F#-E-C#-B-G#-F#-D) or an 8 string form of the Leavitt (F-D-C-Bb-G-E-C#-(B)) are my current top contenders for a second tuning.
But since I am just dabbling in these tunings, my advice should definitely NOT be taken as anything close to the final word. It's just something that I've looked at that may also appeal to you.
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Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

Mr. Dixon and I appearantly wrote our answering posts concurrently. I never knew that Mr. McAulliffe ever played with a G# 1st string. That's my one new thing for the day.
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Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

These are all good tuning suggestions to try.

One thing that hasn't been discussed is the order of strings 1 and 2. Is there a non pedal benefit to reversing the F# and G# strings? A C6 pedal tuning does but I don't see that reversal in non pedal tunings very often.
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Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I would go with the Morrell tuning also only I would put a B on the low string instead of the low E. Gives a nice pentatonic/minor chord form to work off of on the low strings.

One reason for having the F# string on first is to have your E major/root triad strings in a row. Another reason is that many straight steel players are recovering pedal steel players and that is what they are used to.
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John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

Here is my personal preference, although in and of itself it may be worthless! When it comes to a 10-str. E9/13 Tuning, Forget about the high F#! I tune Lo to Hi:
E~B~D~E~F#~G#~B~C#~E~G#
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Chris Scruggs · From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

It's because the whole out of sequence chromatic string thing didn't become popular until the mid '60s after which time the nonpedal guys had either switched to pedals or become set on there tunings. If the F# is between the G# and E, the tuning becomes much less "strummable". If it's out of the way on the first string then you can focus on the core of the tuning, since a high F# would serve a purpose more a s an in between "helper" string to bridge the melodic gap between G# and E.

Try a low F# in the middle of the tuning. It's nice. It serves more of a chordal role than the higher one would do.

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

In 100% honesty, even though I use the 10-str. E9/13 Tuning; LO to Hi: E~B~D~E~F#~G#~B~C#~E~G#; my personal opinion is that the 8-str. version has a better/cleaner strumable-sound than the 10-str. version! E~D~F#~G#~B~C#~E~G# just sounds better to me, but; the 10-str. version is more player friendly! I guess it's a give-and-take situation. “Do you want to play ‘more’, or do you want what you do play to ‘sound better’”? Hard question to answer!
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David Cook · From: Florida, USA

HI, Just my two cents. From lo to hi G A C E G A C E B D. I use this for mostly country and swing. What's nice about it is the ability to play some fast scale passages on the top 5 strings. Those chromatic strings come in real handy.

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

I use just about that on one neck of my T–10, except that my tuning is C6/A7 (Byrd) Lo to Hi:
Lo-A~C~C#~E~G~A~C~E~(B~D)
and my C-Diatonc is, Lo to Hi:
C~E~F~G~A~B~C~E~(D~F)
and then my E9/13, Lo to Hi:
E~B~D~E~F#~G#~B~C#~E~G#
When I played my T-8, I tuned, Lo to Hi:
E9/13 E~D~F#~G#~B~C#~E~G#
C-Dia. C~E~F~G~A~B~C~E
C6/A7 Lo-A~C~C#~E~G~A~C~E
If I had just 6-strings, I guess I'd have to sell it! ha~ha!
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I play 8 string with the F# on top.

F#
G#
E
C#
B
G#
E
D

It would be easy to add two low strings, of course. To me, the advantages of having the F# on the "outside" are:

I still have the Don Helms / Little Roy Wiggins E13 in the correct sequence.
I can do the forward slant triad on 2, 3 and 4.
The intervals on the middle 6 strings are the same as on my A6th back neck.
I'm used to the idea because I also play E9th pedal steel with F# on top, and C6th pedal steel with D on top.

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Johnne Lee Ables · From: Minnesota, USA

Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

After trying it both ways, I too think its better to keep that F# up on top. It stays out of the way until you need it.
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John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

Those are my thoughts also on my T-10, but; only on my C6/A7 and C-Dia.. If I put an F# on top of my E9/13 10str. tuning I guess the low B would be the one for me to drop, because; the low E is the one that gives that tuning it's bottom/body! But at the present time, the other two necks seem to be sufficient for my style of playing and my E9/13 also fits for that style! I guess ‘to each his own’!
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Bill Leff · From: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Having only played standard guitar and lap steel, I just can't get used to that first string being lower pitched than the second. It is completely unintuitive to me and will screw me up every time!

I guess E9 pedal steel is out for me in this lifetime. Maybe my next one....

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

Bill; Nothing is chisled in stone! Just because you might want to play a PSG, doesn't mean you must have odd-ball strings on the top! You can tune a 10-str. PSG E9 from Lo to Hi:
E~G#~B~D~E~F#~G#~B~E~G# and still use standard pedal-changes and a variety of KL's!

Gary C. Dygert · From: Frankfort, NY, USA

This thread is a perfect example of how this Forum is so great. There is a ton of information in just this thread. And Mr. Hoffnar, I like your comment! Laughing

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