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Topic: Microphonic Pickups? |
Louie Warren
From:
Sumerduck, VA, USA
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Posted 14 Aug 2008 1:59 pm |
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I have a National D8 console I bought awhile back. I have used it successfully ever since. I have known for sometime that the pickups in the D8 are a little weaker than in my National Dynamic 6, and it's always been a slightly microphonic. Recently, the screw on connector on the D8 went belly up. When I had to change out the jack, I decided to restring it. I took all the strings off and removed the pickups to allow access to the control panel. I later found out I would need to route the space because my 1/4 jack was longer than the screw on. Successfully installed the jack and put everything back together and noticed that the pickups seemed even weaker and more microphonic. I really can't afford a new Remington (which is what I want) so I need to do something with this. I am assuming that pickup rewinding/potting is the only solution. Lindy Fralin? Any one else? Hate to go to the expense, but it's cheaper than a new Remington!
Thanx
L
Last edited by Louie Warren on 20 Aug 2008 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 14 Aug 2008 4:55 pm Re: Microphonic Pickups?
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| Louie Warren wrote: |
| I am assuming that pickup rewinding/potting is the only solution. |
Get in touch with Jason Lollar - http://www.lollarguitars.com/
_________________
"Play to express, not to impress"
Website - YouTube |
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Louie Warren
From:
Sumerduck, VA, USA
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Posted 15 Aug 2008 7:51 am Re: Microphonic Pickups?
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| Steinar Gregertsen wrote: |
| Louie Warren wrote: |
| I am assuming that pickup rewinding/potting is the only solution. |
Get in touch with Jason Lollar - http://www.lollarguitars.com/ |
Thanx Steinar! I forgot about him! Lindy Fralin's place is about an hour from my house... but Jason... I'll have to check it out! |
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Louie Warren
From:
Sumerduck, VA, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 10:11 am
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After speaking with Rick Aiello and Jason Lollar... I have come to the realization that pulling these pickups out for refurb could be an iffy thing and I may, possibly, be replacing them. They both say they could possibly look at them and do something but they were both booked up for the next few months (Guys correct me if I'm wrong). Now, I am thinking about replacing the pickups and controls with new stuff... any suggestions? I was thinking of getting a MojoTone or RS GuitarWorks harness for humbuckers with a 3-way blade switch and a new set of pickups. Jason has some nice onces... George L doesn't seem to make 8 string... neither does Seymour Duncan or Fralin. Just curious.
Thanx
L |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 10:39 am
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Jason's
Based on the Oahu/Valco/Supro lap steel pickups. High output, high clarity pickups. String spacing outside to outside strings is 2-5/8"
And MANY more to be found HERE |
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Rich Hlaves
From:
Wildomar, California, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 10:46 am
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Louie,
I'm in exactly the same boat with my National New Yorker. No microphonics but output is less than I would like. In speaking with Rick A. about a magnet zap, pulling the cover off the pickup may "compromise the integrity of the coil". Rather than have the guitar down for months waiting for a rewind I've decided to live with it. A TS808 tube screamer works wonders.
I have a pair of Tru-Tone eight string pups that might work out for you depending on string spacing if you decide to swap pups. Let me know if you are interested. I can measure them for you but think they are 5/16. They may fit in the cavity so the D8 can be returned to stock some day.
Another thing I plan to try is bypassing the tone circuit in the NYer to see if that helps output. Those old caps could be sucking me dry. This could be part of your issues too as manipulation the wiring to do the output jack could have disturbed a cap. Cleaning the pots improved my guitar slightly even though they did not crackle.
Best,
Rich
Last edited by Rich Hlaves on 20 Aug 2008 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Louie Warren
From:
Sumerduck, VA, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 10:50 am
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Didn't think to look in the Antiquity section! Thanx Basil! Don't know if it would fit or not... Mine looks like this:
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Louie Warren
From:
Sumerduck, VA, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 10:59 am
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| Rich Hlaves wrote: |
Louie,
I'm in exactly the same boat with my National New Yorker. No microphonics but output is less than I would like. In speaking with Rick A. about a magnet zap, pulling the cover off the pickup may "compromise the integrity of the coil". Rather than have the guitar down for months waiting for a rewind I've decided to live with it. A TS808 tube screamer works wonders.
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Yep... Rick told me the same thing. I had a friend "enhance" an old Electro-Harmonix LPB-1 I got cheap. It makes a WORLD of difference! However, lately, I've had to drive it into distortion to get the level up; I run the D8 mostly clean.
| Rich Hlaves wrote: |
I have a pair of Tru-Tone eight string pups that might work out for you depending on string spacing if you decide to swap pups. Let me know if you are interested. I can measure them for you but think they are 5/16. They may fit in the cavity so the D8 can be returned to stock some day.
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I'm going to be measuring everything and taking pix in the near future, so I'll keep that offer in mind. Thanx!
| Rich Hlaves wrote: |
Another thing I plan to try is bypassing the tone circuit in the NYer to see if that helps output. Those old caps could be sucking me dry. This could be part of your issues too as manipulation the wiring to do the output jack could have disturbed a cap. Cleaning the pots improved my guitar slightly even though they did not crackle.
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That could be it... never thought of that. Since I'm a player and not a collector, I want to get this thing in better playing order. I also need a new case. The old brown one is not long for this world.
Thanx for the info! |
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Louie Warren
From:
Sumerduck, VA, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 11:00 am
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http://www.steelguitar.com/askbud/askbud29.htm
Interesting article... The 4th of July weekend I played two outdoor gigs and some of the deluge that fell got in the case... and on the guitar... it didn't seem bad at the time, but... stranger things have happened. I only use this guitar with one project anyway... that project will be out of commission for the month of September, so that could definitely be the time to tear it apart. |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 11:47 am edit
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edit
Last edited by George Piburn on 20 Jun 2012 5:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 1:29 pm
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| Are those original pickups humbuckers? The covers suggest that. Or is that guitar too early for humbucker types? It will likely be obvious what when they are apart. |
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Louie Warren
From:
Sumerduck, VA, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 1:50 pm
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| Bill Creller wrote: |
| Are those original pickups humbuckers? The covers suggest that. Or is that guitar too early for humbucker types? It will likely be obvious what when they are apart. |
I took the damn things out to get to the control panel and fix the switch but didn't think to photograph the process. I guess I'll be doing that in the next month or so. As far as I know they are original... I think when Herb Steiner sold it to me he said the only thing that had been replaced were the tuners. I love the guitar. If the pickups were as hot as my Dynamic, I'd not worry about it. |
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Rich Hlaves
From:
Wildomar, California, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 2:25 pm
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Louie,
I forgot to mention that I also adjusted the pole pieces of the pickup upward, closer to the strings. This also returned a little more output.
Best,
Rich |
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Louie Warren
From:
Sumerduck, VA, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2008 11:04 am
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| Rich Hlaves wrote: |
Louie,
I forgot to mention that I also adjusted the pole pieces of the pickup upward, closer to the strings. This also returned a little more output.
Best,
Rich |
Yeah, I did that, but had to back them back down because I'd hang the lighter strings on the screws. |
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Rich Hlaves
From:
Wildomar, California, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2008 12:29 pm
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Louie,
I talked to Jason Lollar today. I called he was not in but called back in five minutes. I was ordering a set of Deluxe 6 pickups (Stringmaster) for a custom build I've started. I mentioned my National delema to him and he told me he would give it a shot. I'm sending him a couple of pics of the PU to confirm but he said nothing about being to busy to work on it. He also said he would ship my Deluxe 6 PU set in about a week. Go figure? It might be a good time to contact him?
Best,
Rich |
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Louie Warren
From:
Sumerduck, VA, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2008 12:33 pm
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| Rich Hlaves wrote: |
Louie,
I talked to Jason Lollar today. I called he was not in but called back in five minutes. I was ordering a set of Deluxe 6 pickups (Stringmaster) for a custom build I've started. I mentioned my National delema to him and he told me he would give it a shot. I'm sending him a couple of pics of the PU to confirm but he said nothing about being to busy to work on it. He also said he would ship my Deluxe 6 PU set in about a week. Go figure? It might be a good time to contact him?
Best,
Rich |
Need my guitar until after the 30th... we're off quite a lot in September... I'll have to wait until then. Thanx! |
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Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 25 Aug 2008 3:44 am
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Well, ...since I'm in the electronics torture mode in the shop recently:
FWIW: Some simple tests to determine what componant in a guitar is causing a loss of pickup output:
Take two alligator clipped jumper wires and clip onto the pickup leads lug at the pot they're attached to (not onto the often delicate leads themselves), and connect the other ends to the output jack lugs or guitar cord plug itself. That will give you a "zero" resistance bypass of all the electronics in the guitar and tell you if the problem is in the pickup or in the pots / caps / wiring. And oh yea, make sure the volume and tone controls are turned all the way up to isolate their commo with ground and the possibility of a bad cap causing the tone pot to fully or partially act like a volume control. Caps usually go open when they fail, causing nothing but a loss of tone control...but occasionally they will increase or decrease their values or internally short out (usually from damage). A higher value cap will give a lower frequency crossover and thus more signal loss, ...which is actuality a loss of more frequency / signal and thus ear-apparant loss of volume ....IF the tone control is being used (turned down any at all). If the tone control is not being used (turned all the way up) and is a high enough value, then there's plenty of resistance to make a cap problem usually a non-event as long as the tone pot is of adequate resistance value and turned up all the way. ------- A pot usually fails by the carbon resistance race disentegrating and thus going open or otherwise increasing in resistance, ...and less often fail by dirt / grime shorting or resisting or inducting to ground; But the commonly known cleaning usually reveals any problem there. -------Another good test is to first desolder the tone pot's input lead ...and see if that cures a problem; Then to see if a tone / sound improvement can be made with a 1Meg pot and different cap value; use the alligator jumpers again to patch in a 1Meg tone pot to see if that plenty-ample resistance stops any errant signal leaking to ground in an old or inadequate pot (loss of volume). You can clip in any cap value between .020mF and .050mF onto the 1Meg pot for such a test. You will have to desolder the old tone pot's input lead for the test, which is usually a good lead to clip onto to the 1Meg pot.
Shot in the dark: Another ghost in old cloth insulateded wire is the cloth becoming dirty, laying up against a ground source and acting like a resistor to ground; And in rarer cases the cloth offereing just enough minimal insulation from ground to cause some inductive leaks to ground. So tease old cloth insulated wires out of the way of any commo with ground and see if there is improvement in sound.
_________________
Aloha,
Denny T~
http://www.dennysguitars.com/
Please help support humanity:
http://www.redcross.org/en/aboutus |
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Rich Hlaves
From:
Wildomar, California, USA
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Posted 25 Aug 2008 7:37 am
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National pickup update:
Jason Lollar reviewed my pics of the New Yorker PU and suggests leave it alone. The tabs on the pickup cover may break, the coil may get damaged and use a pickup booster to compensate is what he had to say about it after further review. I trust the man judgement and will leave the PU intact.
On another front, I installed a set of Rick A's NIbro Magnets in my National Chicagoan (string thru PU). Wow, they are strong and made a huge tonal and output improvement in the guitar. It also picks up less noise as the sronger magnetic field seems to insulate the PU from outside influences. I'm jazzed! Best $45 I have ever spent on a guitar inprovement.
Denny, great post, great advice.
Best,
Rich |
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