Jody Carver wrote:Gary...so far as your question..the two jacks on the left side are input and output..the tuning jack is on the opposite side...why they arranged it this way..I have no clue...since I play mostly non pedal it doesn't seem to bother me. I hope this answers your question..
Thanx
Jody,
Just to clarify for everyone's benefit, the two jacks on the left side of the pedal are both outputs. One is a normal output and the other is a "tuner" out. The input jack is on the right side of the pedal and is not visible in the photo.
The Fender pedal is great if you are looking for that particular Boo-wah sound but has a couple drawbacks for pedalsteel players.
1: Its a very high profile pedal and the angle is awkward for a sitting player.
2: The only time the tone pot is open is when the top is swiveled all the way to the right. If you leave the the top lined up with the base it is the same as having a tone control turned down to 5 on your steel.
Bob Hoffnar wrote:The Fender pedal is great if you are looking for that particular Boo-wah sound but has a couple drawbacks for pedalsteel players.
1: Its a very high profile pedal and the angle is awkward for a sitting player.
2: The only time the tone pot is open is when the top is swiveled all the way to the right. If you leave the the top lined up with the base it is the same as having a tone control turned down to 5 on your steel.
The new pedal is the exact same size and profile as the old originals were. I used to own an original 25 or 30 years ago. It's almost identical in profile to my old Sho Bud pedal which I have used for 25 years. Neither are in any way awkward for me. Just a personal opinion.
As for point number 2: Yes, for full treble, the top of the pedal has to be all the way to the right. Again, this is exactly the same way the originals worked.
James Thank you I understand the lay out of the inputs on pedal volume very well now. Also the reason for the pot value to be 250 ohms. Will use the george L cable as you said under the Pedal and into the steel. You made it very clear thank you again.
So lessee.....we've had two pedal steel amps from Fender in the past few years, now this awesome pedal....can console steels and/or pedal steels be coming down the road?
Just to let everyone know, I finally recieved my Fender vol/tone pedal and the volume pot was scratchy right out of the box... Also, I was not at all satisfied with the boowah sound (not enough boowah). It looks cool though.
Ive seen a couple of old console steels at the fender HQ. They were in the office of the guy that spearheaded the new fender lap steel and new gretsch lap steel. They may be coming out with something new, but keep in mind hes also the guy who does all gretsch guitars and quite a few other things so his workload is pretty heavy.
President - Southern Californa Steel Guitar Association
Mike,
I have this pedal a few weeks now. The volume swell is nice and soft, but there isn`t enough boowah for me too. I saw Eddie Rivers some time ago, he played a single neck stringmaster through the old Fender pedal, he had that boowah sound.
I hope somebody finds the right cap to get that sound.
I borrowed one of the originals from a friend a little while back, and it had a scratchy pot without much boowah. From the reports, the new one seems to replicate that all too well. We need someone like Hilton to design one and get it right.
Thanks for the word of support David. I find the old boowah pedal and the people who want it pretty interesting. I know a person's tone can be changed by movement of the foot left or right. It seems to me the main purpose of this pedal is one effect, the boowah. I can't ever remember hearing that sound on a recording past the 1950's, maybe it will come back someday. Those that love that sound, really miss it. The mechanics to get that sound out of old pedals was extreme. Nowdays the manufacturer has to guarantee something like that to work. I would hate to be responsible to guarantee two pots on two separate strings. For the manufacturer it seems like a nighmare ready to happen. David, I think outside the "BUN". Get it?--That came from the TACO BELL AD.
If I were to build a Boowah, I would build it as a lever that attached to the leg of a steel. Or box that had a lever you simply hit. As far as the electronics, that would be easy. I could get the most extreme Boowah anyone ever heard. Even better than the 1940's and 50's. I am still trying to figure out what board Jody put his 5 stars across.
I haven't tried the new Fender vol/tone, but I would bank on Jody Carver's review. Could there be anyone more qualified to evaluate a re-issued Fender product? I wonder if everyone is using the proper technique to get the doo-wah effect. With my original you have to have the volume full on in order to get a good doo-wah. I have also found that running other effects in line with the pedal kills the effect. I would recommend trying it again using only guitar > pedal > amp with the pedal volume full on.
Keith, I think people might be interested in this for more than just the old boowah effect. The Sacred Steelers use a lot of wah in their playing and have renewed interest in that among rock and blues steelers, which seems to be a growing number. And wah has been a staple of rock since Hendrix. But steelers don't like to take their foot off the volume pedal. Also, a second wah pedal is just one more thing to cart around and hook up. So there is a certain appeal to the idea of a two-in-one volume-wah pedal. A clip-on lever on the leg of a steel is also an interesting idea for a wah. That might work better than a volume-wah pedal. Swishing your foot sideways is not a very natural move. But flopping your leg against a lever might work, if you could do it without hitting your RKR.
Well, I just got mine and have been playing with it for about a half-hour. There's one major problem for me. I didn't realize that the TONE portion wouldn't work if the Fender isn't first in the effects chain. I have a boost/eq pedal and a Big Muff running before my VP and the tone swivel has no effect whatsoever in that setup. It works fine if it's first in line, though.
This one might get returned or sold soon because I like the setup I have (boost and distortion before VP).
However, I might decide to mod it so the left/right swivel action controls an expression pedal pot. That shouldn't be that difficult to pull off.
James, the powered devices ahead of the pedal produce a stronger signal which swamps the tone capacitor. The tone capacitor needs to see a really weak signal, that being a magnetic pickup. Maybe if the pedal would work anywhere in the signal chain it could have 6 stars across the board.
James Mayer wrote:...the TONE portion wouldn't work if the Fender isn't first in the effects chain.
One more thing they got wrong. I too like my Seymour Duncan Twin Tube distortion box between the pickup and the volume pedal, so that it is pick sensitive. Guess we will have to wait for one of these that is really designed for modern steel.
Hi All,
This is an interesting conversation regarding the use of pedals before the Fender Volume/Tone pedal. I decided to go down the hall and talk with Ija Kothrade, the engineer that worked on the redevelopment of the Fender Volume/Tone pedal.
I described James Mayers' dilemma to him and he had a ready answer that makes good electrical sense. This pedal, obviously, is a passive pedal. Looking into its input you find a capacitor which acts as a filter in conjunction with the high impedance of the pickup. So, the pickup's impedance (both resistive & inductive) acts as part of the filtering equation.
If you place a pedal in front of the Volume/Tone pedal,you are now typically driving the pedal with a very low impedance source (there are usually op-amps found at the output of pedals). This low impedance causes the pedal's tone filtering effect to move up so high in frequency that it is not audible. (i.e., this is not a signal level problem).
Ija then told me that there is caution found in the Fender Volume/Tone pedal owner's manual that suggests to use this pedal with a pickup driving it and to not drive it with a pedal for this very reason.
FYI - The circuitry is consistent with the original pedal.
As Sam said, the (stock) capacitor value in the pedal works best across a pickup, and does little when driven with a (buffer) device. However, those who still wish to use the pedal with a buffer device can try increasing the capacitor value significantly to get a more profound tonal change.
One other tip to get a good "doo-waa" sound is to set your amp so that you do, in fact, get your "normal" tone with the pedal somewhere near the center. Then, varying it from left to right gives you a more profound change, from bassier than normal to sharper than normal.
I have the original Fender T/V pedal. I was using a Hilton, until I injured my foot. I dug out the old pedal, disconneted the tone, put in a new volume PEC 500K pot and that did the trick. I was able to use it as a low profile, and the swivel top made it more comfortable when using. Personally, I am considering trying the new Dunlop, HotPotz 11 potentiometer, and see what happens. I talked with several steel players using this pot, and they seemed impressed. However, everyone hears differently and only I can judge. Keith does make a good sounding pedal and I'm sure I will wind up going back to it. However, mine's the older style with the power supply permanently attached and it's rather "clumbsy" to use.
Sam, sorry I have not got back to you. This winter we had 2 major ice storms, then 2 major floods. Plus, I had a bleeding colon and almost bled to death if I had not spent time in the hospital. I will try and contact you before too much longer. Anyway Sam, as you know, one of my steel amps is a 90's era Custom Vibrosonic tube amp. I think I need the tubes replaced, and I know I need a matched set. What tubes do you recommend for replacement? I am more of a solid state guy rather than a tube repair guy.
I am sure others will chime in as there are many opinions. For steel, I would get a tube with the GT rating of 8 or 9 if you want to maximize the headroom.
Given that your 90's Custom Vibrosonic has no feedback around the power amp (by design), the sonic result of the interactions between the power tubes, transformer, & speaker are much greater than a typical Twin Reverb with feedback. Thus, you really want a superior power tube.
Thanks Dave, I will check out the Custom 15. Can't say that I have heard much about it on the Forum though. But hey, I like being different.
Thanks again.
Ok, not to hijack this thread and I will quickly get out of here, but I did check out the Fender Custom 15. I think I know now why it is not really featured here. The thing sells for $1349.99!!!!
85 watts for $1349.99!!! Not me brother.
Keith Hilton wrote:James, the powered devices ahead of the pedal produce a stronger signal which swamps the tone capacitor. The tone capacitor needs to see a really weak signal, that being a magnetic pickup. Maybe if the pedal would work anywhere in the signal chain it could have 6 stars across the board.
Keith, I have a Hilton pedal(yes, I love it) and it has a tone pot in it. Can you make one that swivels?
My new Fender V/T pedal arrived yesterday. I was using a friends original pedal so I have both at the house at the same time.
The old one doesn't have the original pots and I didn't check to see what the new ones are but he did tell me that he followed the advise of people on this forum when he installed the pots.
I wasn't expecting much from the pedal after reading some posts about it, so I was a bit shocked to hear what I think is a very good Boo wah come out of it. It sure is much better than the original one sitting next to it. The pots aren't scratchy at all. I didn't have a lot of time to compare it to the other volume pedals that I have but I sense that it's doing a good job of keeping the guitar's tone. Each one of my pedals has a slightly different effect on tone. I have sho buds, goodridch and a Miller.
I don't think the output on the left is a big deal. I just routed the cable around it. Maybe while using P8 your heal might hit the cable but a 90degree input would fix that. I tend to keep my pedal pretty far to the right anyway.
I put the original and the new one next to each other and opened the back. These are very close to the original. Much more than I thought. Exterior wise it looks like it was made with the same stamp down to the smallest holes for the string. Inside it is layed out exaclty the same other than the outputs. Everything is basically the same other than the size of the pots and the pullies on the pots. The quality of the metal seems the same as is feels like the same weight and looks the same. The chrome looks the same. It might be a little smother on the old one in a few spots but I wouldn't know if that is saying anything or if it's just random.
My only problem is that the presure needed for volume and for tone is a bit stiff right now. I think an adjustment or some oil might do the trick.
I also don't feel any problem with the profile.
I did notice that the higher impedence pickup was less cabable of getting the boo wah sound. My pickups are tapped at 9k and 19K. The lower one seems to show off the full range of tone more so you hear the full boo wha. I tend to dislike high impedence pickups since they sound kind of muddy to me so maybe I don't hear the high end of the "Wah" with the higher pickups. I also noticed with the old one that it had more boo wah when used with a stringmaster. So maybe these pedals like the low impedece pickups?
I bought it on line and had it at my door in three days. It also comes with a velvet bag which is cool since it should keep it looking good.
I'm pretty happy to get a brand new pedal for that price. What were the original ones going for...$300 something or a bit less? I like it that Fender reissues things like tube reverb, pedals and amps. You can alter them to get what you want and you don't have to pay or worry about collectors prices.
We need someone like Hilton to design one and get it right.
