Newbies! Starter vs Stage One

Brick Spieth · Post by **Brick Spieth** » 28 Jul 2008 5:24 pm

My new Stage One just arrived today, and I am in the position of having both the Stage One and a Carter Starter side by side for comparison, so from a raw newbie, here is a quick comparison for those of you in the market for a student guitar.

Price:

Musicians Friend sells a new Carter Starter for $795. A Stage One is $949.

Caveat: The Starter I have been playing on is used.

The first difference that stands out is that a Stage One comes with a very nice hard case. The Starter comes with a gig bag. A hard case is extra. The leg bag is also higher quality from Stage One.

The Stage One has heavy chrome adjustable legs vs lighter weight aluminum looking legs on the Starter, with one leg having a screw out adjustment for leveling only. The pedal bar is wood on the Carter, aluminum on the Stage One. Pedals and pedal rods apear very similar on both guitars.

The Stage One seems about eight pounds heavier, which translates to a much more stable robust feeling when playing, especially when using the levers. There is about a quarter the flex in the Stage One, leading to a feeling of quality compared to the Carter.

The under side of the guitars yeald some more differences. The materials are similar, with the levers being angled aluminum on both guitars. The RKL lever on the Carter was bent. The Stage One has nylon stops vs screw heads on the Carter. The changer fingers on the Carter are flat metal. The Studio One uses angled fingers for a much stronger appearance. I haven't heard of changer problems on the Carter, so this may not be a big deal. The Stage One is flocked. The Carter is painted black on the underside of the body.

Bodies of both guitars are maple. Carters come in black. Stage Ones are offered in colors. Mine is wineberry with a black top. Classy looking.

Keyheads are similar on both guitars, with none of that fancy looking stairstep design found on pro guitars. A HUGE difference is that tuners are Grovers on the Stage One vs pings on the Carter. The pings do work, but the feel is cheap.

The rollers on the nut are about four times the diameter on the Stage One. I don't know what this means, except the design difference stuck out. Neck is wood on the Carter, brushed aluminum on the Stage One. The Stage One also has a classy looking colored board vs the black and white of the Carter. Totally cosmetic. PU is covered on the Stage One, not on the Carter. Both sound really fine. The top side of the changer on both guitars look well designed and substantial. One small detail that bugged me on the Carter is the jack is hidden under the guitar. The Stage One plugs in on the side.

So how do they play, you ask? The biggest difference is the stability of the Stage One. The pedal action is a bit smoother and quieter than the Starter. They both sound good, but I don't know how old the Starter's strings are, so will not make a judgement. Unplugged, the Stage One had a lot less undercarriage clatter. Both guitars stay in tune. I am 5' 11" and barely fit under the Carter. I have room to spare under the Stage One with legs that adjust.

So, the deal is this. There is no way I would buy a new Starter. Things become murkier when you can buy a used Starter for $500-$600. I have played a bit of steel and finger picked for a good many years, so I am reasonably sure I will be able to overcome the hurdles necessary to play PSG. If I was a flat picker, and had never played with a bar, you might want to pick up a used Starter, see if you like it, and trade up later, more so if you are starting out with no experience on a stringed instrument.

Doug Earnest builds a steel that has a quality feel to it. I feel I got my money's worth and more.

Now, if someone would just bring me an old MSA classic that hadn't been serviced in a while, we could address what another $500 would have bought me, but for now I'll be happy spending the difference on lessons. Hope this helps any of you fellow newbies out there trying to decide. I guess you can never go wrong buying the best you can afford. The Carter does everything you need, the Stage One does it better.....coming soon....chapter two.

Wally Taylor · Post by **Wally Taylor** » 28 Jul 2008 6:10 pm

It does not matter what we think. Which one do YOU want? Which do YOU prefer? Which sounds best to YOU, which plays best to YOU?
Pick the one that makes YOU happy. Either one will give you years of learning joy. Just get going and don't worry about what others prefer. Make yourself happy and the rest will take care of itself.

Wally

Brick Spieth · Post by **Brick Spieth** » 28 Jul 2008 6:53 pm

I think a Cooped Sho Bud would make me really happy. Till then the Stage One will do.

One thing I've learned in the one short month I've had this fever is that having ANY PSG is better than not having one. By far. : )

Daniel Davis · Post by **Daniel Davis** » 28 Jul 2008 8:57 pm

Nice to hear.

I am happy I spent the extra money and went with the Stage One over the Carter.

I like the extra weight, and from what I hear the Carters tend to slide around a lot when played.

I've been very happy with my Stage One over the last 9 days or so.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 29 Jul 2008 3:57 am

Brick Spieth wrote:Now, if someone would just bring me an old MSA classic that hadn't been serviced in a while, we could address what another $500 would have bought me, but for now I'll be happy spending the difference on lessons.

I'd love to bring you mine, but IT'S TOO HEAVY, and that's the beauty of your selection. I think the stability of the Stage One helps with the levers, which are perceived as weak on the Starter. That perception could come from too much pushing as the guitar moves. Less movement, even with the same type of lever, is going to result in a more positive feel.

I think your comparison is good, as un-biased as you could present, and may answer one of the most asked questions on the forum concerning student guitars.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 29 Jul 2008 5:07 am

Brick Spieth wrote: Now, if someone would just bring me an old MSA classic...

Your neighbor in San José, Bill Llewellyn plays an old MSA U-12. I'm sure he'd be happy to show you his.

Brick Spieth · Post by **Brick Spieth** » 29 Jul 2008 8:11 am

I just thought it was a good opportunity to compare two possible student selections side by side, from the perspective of someone just getting started in PSG. I wish I had a GFI to check out. They seem to take the less features, more quality approach, and it would be interesting to see the difference. I thought getting a GFI setup with 3x4 was approaching the price of a used pro guitar.

This buying sight unseen aspect of PSG is unique in my experience.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 29 Jul 2008 8:39 am

Is there a difference in the copedent between these two guitars?

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 29 Jul 2008 8:48 am

"The RKL lever on the Carter was bent."

-had a similar problem w/ LKL on my starter.
was a deal breaker for me.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 29 Jul 2008 9:22 am

b0b wrote:Is there a difference in the copedent between these two guitars?

The Carter Starter has a knee lever that lowers the B strings to Bb, and the copedant is fixed and cannot be changed. I don't know whether the 4th knee on the stage one is B to Bb or F# to G, or whether it can be altered.

Personally, I thing B to Bb is more important and useful than F# to G, but I'd like to see a student guitar with 5 knees (the 5th being a vertical,) that had both changes.

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 29 Jul 2008 9:36 am

Brick,I think that you did a fair comparison.

Doug Earnest · Post by **Doug Earnest** » 29 Jul 2008 9:57 am

Mike, you are going to see that 5th vertical lever pretty soon.....

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 29 Jul 2008 10:46 am

Nice review Brick! I enjoyed reading it.

I have only played the Carter Starter so I can't personally compare the two. Anyone just starting out would benefit from reading objective reviews like yours IMHO.

Greg

James Collett · Post by **James Collett** » 29 Jul 2008 12:10 pm

I know it's a P-R mechanism, but is the copedent adjustable on the S1?

Jonathan Shacklock · Post by **Jonathan Shacklock** » 29 Jul 2008 12:56 pm

It's always interesting to read product reviews on the forum, especially side by side comparisons like this. Thanks Brick!

Brick Spieth · Post by **Brick Spieth** » 29 Jul 2008 3:59 pm

Hey Doug! You mean the guitar you just sold me is going to be obsolete? I figure I'll be ready for a fifth lever in a year or so. Maybe two. I'm really enjoying my Stage One, and am glad someone like you is building a guitar a new player can be proud to own.

Guys, there is a very good reason to make a student guitar with a fixed co-pedent, especially the most standard one. Newbies don't need any more distractions than they already have trying to learn PSG. Having a fixed co-pedent keeps the cost down too. I've read an awful lot about how not being able to change things is such a detriment, but when you are at the stage I am at, it really is a non issue. I don't yet have a clue what the heck all the levers do, and have purposely not tried to learn until I have some competent instruction, which I'll be getting from Stephen Silver. I'm trying my best to give him a blank slate to work with.

The reason I started the comparison in the first place was to bring an absolute beginner's perspective to the comparison. I know where you long timers are coming from as I can give you a bunch of reasons why any tele should have Glendale bridges and saddles, and only Don Mare pickups will do, when what a beginner really needs is just a well set up guitar.

Someday the light bulb will go off in my head and I'll think to myself that I need a new PSG that I can change, and I'll actually know why. I'll go shopping then.

Of course maybe I'll have some money in the bank and an opportunity will just present itself to get a real nice ax, and I'll just buy it because I can. That's OK too.

Ben Rubright · Post by **Ben Rubright** » 29 Jul 2008 5:08 pm

I have a Carter Starter and I like it a lot.....only one issue other than not being able to change the coped......the LKR....(lowering the E's) has excessive travel...I wonder if the Stage One has a similar problem.

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 29 Jul 2008 6:41 pm

No, the Stage One knee levers have a short throw with positive stops.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 29 Jul 2008 8:08 pm

b0b wrote:Is there a difference in the copedent between these two guitars?

Mike Perlowin wrote:The Carter Starter has a knee lever that lowers the B strings to Bb, and the copedant is fixed and cannot be changed. I don't know whether the 4th knee on the stage one is B to Bb or F# to G...

Neither do I. That's why I asked the question. Do they have the same copedent? I know that they are both 'fixed'. Are they the same?

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 29 Jul 2008 8:37 pm

Nice review Brick. I was glad to hear a side-by-side comparison. I have not given any kind of testimony on the forum, so I guess this is a good time to chime in.
I have had my Stage One for a few months now. I've been very pleased with the performance, smooth action, intonation and sound of this guitar. I had to get used to the setup somewhat, but it's no big deal.
I have flown twice with it, and at 37lbs in the case, it makes all the difference in the whole trip. I tape the case up in the cardboard box Doug shipped it in, and that saves the hardware and covering from conveyors.
I just got through doing 4 straight gigs with it, all outdoors in the heat. The Stage One saved me a lot of energy in that heat.
It's a great alternate option to run out and do a quick or difficult gig.
Doug does a great job on this guitar, and he's great to work with.
Here she is

Brick Spieth · Post by **Brick Spieth** » 29 Jul 2008 10:44 pm

Bob-

The co-pedent is the same on both guitars with the exception of RKL. On the Carter the RKL lowers B on string 5 to B flat. On the Stage One RKL raises F# to G on one and seven. I haven't a clue what this means in the real world.

By the way, only after I said Hi to you at the end of the Sat jam did I realize my name tag had come off. The good looking guy that said hi was me.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 30 Jul 2008 3:08 am

Lowering the 5th string to Bb is a short trip away from a mandatory pull in my view, I preach (and teach) the power of strings 8 and 5 with all associated pulls as a normal routine. Raising 1 and 7 to G# is the more common pull for Pedal Steel guitars. This allows the unison note for the 1st and 3rd stings along with countless other phrases. Can the 1 and 7 strings be pulled to G# on the Stage One ?

Doug Earnest · Post by **Doug Earnest** » 30 Jul 2008 8:01 am

Tony,
The 1st string will go to F#. I have never set one up to pull the 7th string to F# but don't see any reason why it would not. I guess I need to make a half stop for the 1st string so you can have both changes there. So many things to do, so little time....

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 30 Jul 2008 12:42 pm

I found a great accessory for the Stage One PSG, (or any other S-10 guitar for that matter) It's an armrest made by Don Blood. I've grown used to a D-10 guitar and it was a little challenging to modify my stance to play an S-10 guitar. A few simple measurements and a modest payment to Don solved the problem. The armrest looks like it was designed to go with my guitar. Here's a link to Don's website: http://armrest.donblood.com

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 30 Jul 2008 1:34 pm

I actually like not having the back neck on a steel for a change, and I like sitting higher by using a drum throne. Not having the back neck keeps my elbows in and my hands in a proper position. If I'm resting on the back neck or a pad, my right elbow creeps out and the right hand is at a bad angle.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Newbies! Starter vs Stage One

Newbies! Starter vs Stage One

Re: Newbies! Starter vs Stage One

Re: Newbies! Starter vs Stage One

Stage One