What diameter are Carter pedal rods

Jacek Jakubek · Post by **Jacek Jakubek** » 20 Jun 2008 2:50 pm

Hello,

Does anyone know if I can use 3/16" diameter rods to be used for pedal rods and thread them with the 10-32 thread?

The current rods on my guitar look slightly thinner than 3/16", maybe more like 5/32", and they have 10-32 threads on the ends (Can anyone verify if Carter pedal rods are actually 5/32"?)

Will using these slightly thicker 3/16" rods break my 10-32 die?

I want to to purchase a tap/die set especially for this reason but it seems 5/32" rods are very rare and
are a special order item at most welding and metal supply stores.

Also, will stainless steel rods be hard to thread? Should get brass ones or aluminum if I can find them?

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 21 Jun 2008 2:56 am

Carter pedal rods are slightly less than 3/16" and the threads are rolled, not cut. a die will NOT work on this diameter as it is too small to be cut.

You could use 3/16" rod and a 10-32 die to make pedal rods.

Stainless will be harder to thread than cold-rolled steel. Just take your time and use cutting fluid.

Ronnie Boettcher · Post by **Ronnie Boettcher** » 21 Jun 2008 6:43 am

Hi, just go to a Big Lots, or Harbor Freight store, and buy a cheap tap and die set. (around 10 to 15 bucks.) Then get the 3/16" rod. If you find the rod slightly thick, file a few thousandths off it. Use oil when threading it. (any kind will do). When you start to thread the rod, go about a 1/4th, to 1/3rd turn on the rod, then back off the die past where you started the cut, to free the die, and then go another 1/4 turn, and repeat the back and forth motuon till you have the desired length. When you do the back and forth movement, you relieve the die from long curls of waste, and it goes smoother. Its easy. I don't know about other brands, but sho-bud rods that connect to the changer, you can buy the rods at any home depot, or lowes. It is the cieling wire used to hang acoustic cieling grid. And use a 5/40 die. Very inexpensive.

Michael Maddex · Post by **Michael Maddex** » 21 Jun 2008 7:09 pm

Jacek, I'll try to answer a couple of your questions:

I think that you'll have a lot of difficulty trying to get a 10-32 die started on 3/16" stock. You don't need to get a whole tap and die set, you can buy individual taps and dies at hardware or auto parts stores.

You can find 5/32" stock here:

brass steel I believe the same outfit also has 5/32" aluminum rods.

Although I haven't done it, at one point I thought that replacing the pedal rods with a set of brass ones would look pretty sharp. In my experience, stainless is exceedingly difficult to work with.

HTH. JMHO.

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 22 Jun 2008 3:49 am

Jacek,
I did cut 10-32 thread on 3/16 stainless rod when I built my steel.
It is very difficult mind you.
First take the sharp edge off the end of the rod with a grinder-just a very slight round-over.
When ready to cut,you have to apply a lot of pressure with both hands and go very slowly. Have the rod set up firmly in a vise. With both hands on the handle, apply pressure and turn as far as you can, holding the same pressure. Then, when you have to change your grip, make sure the die does not tilt or turn.
Once you have it started by cutting 5 or 6 threads, it goes by itself. Do what Ronnie said..lots of back and forth movement to keep the die clear

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 22 Jun 2008 5:22 am

What I have done is heat the end of the rod red hot, with a propane torch, let it cool, then then thread it. That seems to make it easier to thread. Also, you can buy adjustable dies, then thread in two operations, first with the die adjusted slightly oversize. Then adjust it to the correct size for the second pass.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 22 Jun 2008 8:21 am

Wouldn't it be easier to just buy them from Carter. In Canada, you might have to go through Al Brisco (I think he is a Carter dealer).

Jacek Jakubek · Post by **Jacek Jakubek** » 24 Jun 2008 5:57 pm

Thanks for the advice, folks.

I cut and threaded the 3/16 rods with the 10-32 die just yesterday and they work OK.

The threading part was a hassle, especially starting the thread. When I was finished with the threading,
all the threaded parts on all the rods were a bit crooked, but the pedal joint connectors still screwed on OK.

I had to throw away 2 rods because the thread on those came out so crooked, the connectors wouldn't screw on. I don't know what I was doing wrong that some of the threads came out more crooked than others, maybe like Bent mentioned above, I had the die tilted a bit when I was turning it.

It's nice to be able to make parts for my guitar myself and I'm glad I learned to do this.

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 5 Oct 2010 8:01 pm

Jacek Jakubek wrote:...will stainless steel rods be hard to thread? Should get brass ones or aluminum?

Scoured the forum on aluminum pedal rods, but didn't see any pros or cons, only expansion for pull rods.

After playing my new Carter D10 (+2") for a while, I've decided to raise the height on my Fessenden, which is standard height. I added PVC spacers covered with foil tape on the front legs for now to keep the pedal bar down. Much cheaper than buying new legs.

The pedal rods are kinda rusty (shown on bottom below), so I decided to fabricate new longer ones myself rather than get extensions.

Im using 3/16" zinc plated aluminum rod (on top above) and a 10/32" threader from Home Depot.

The hook came out well (shown on top below), but I still need to grind it down (as on bottom in pic) to fit in the crossbar pull hole.

It looks like this is what was done on the original pedal rods, as well as a slight bend near the hook to clear the apron.

Original pedal rods shown here are steel (hence the rust).
I'm hoping the aluminum rod will be strong enough and that temperature variance wont affect tuning, the way pull rods of aluminum might. They are certainly easier to thread than steel. Luckily, I have a friend with a grinder to help work on the hook end.

Anyone have problems (or success) using aluminum pedal rods?
Ive only made one so far, so it's not too late to exchange them for steel.

Clete

albert johnson · Post by **albert johnson** » 6 Oct 2010 5:18 am

The correct size rod for 10/32 thread with dies is17/64.You can buy this size DRILL ROD from Enco Mfg. Co.It comes in 3 ft. lengths.phone # 800-873-3626 or on line at use-enco.com.Note:drill rod will rust,but will not if polished once in a while.looks like chrome if polished.either oil or the water hardened type machine good.I hope this info.helps.Albert Johnson

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 6 Oct 2010 8:02 am

Hi albert,
Thanks for the reply.
This is a bit off topic.

My question was about aluminum vs. steel pedal rods.
There were several posts in this thread of interest to me, especially from the late John Fabian of Carter

John Fabian wrote:...You could use 3/16" rod and a 10-32 die to make pedal rods.
Stainless will be harder to thread than cold-rolled steel. Just take your time and use cutting fluid.

Others mention aluminum, brass, stainless, compound, welding rod, etc.

Has anyone made pedal rods from 3/16" aluminum?
My main concern is the tensile strength of the hook end.

Clete

Martin Weenick · Post by **Martin Weenick** » 6 Oct 2010 10:46 am

I make my pedal rods from 3/16 aluminum it's much easier to thread, lighter, costs less , shines brighter. Like Bent said, grind a semi-point on the rod so you will start in the center. I do mine on a lathe but have done many by hand. Holding the die handle straight to start is key to a good job. And dont worry about the strength at the bend, you will rip the bell crank and shaft right off the guitar before you straighten out the bend. Martin.

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 6 Oct 2010 11:19 am

Thanks Martin,

My mind is at ease now

I threaded the first one as you suggest and it came out great.
Seven more to bend, cut, thread and grind and I'm off to the races.

Clete

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 6 Oct 2010 6:47 pm

Someone asked about hooks on alumnium rods. I built a set of rods years ago out of alumnium. It was 1/4 in. rod. I drilled the rod and a piece of steel for 6-32 and tapped them. took a 1" 6-32 allen bolt locktited the bolt in the rod and steelend. then turned the steel down and made my hooks in the steel worked great and made a light rod. Happy Steelin

albert johnson · Post by **albert johnson** » 7 Oct 2010 1:31 pm

In my post on the size of the rod for tapping 10/32 threads should be 11/32 not 17/32.I am sorry about the mistake.Albert

albert johnson · Post by **albert johnson** » 7 Oct 2010 1:39 pm

[quote="albert johnson"]In my post on the size of the rod for tapping 10/32threads should be 11/64 not 17/64.I am sorry about the mistake.Albert[/i][/b][/u]

Storm Rosson · Post by **Storm Rosson** » 8 Oct 2010 6:13 am

I'm definitely with Martin using Al alloy ,u be careful bending cause it sometimes fractures, heating and letting it cool slow seems to alleviate this. Al being lighter seems to, (at least in my mind and feel),make the pedals faster. If u use a mds filled nylon bushing on the pedal pull crank, like Martin did on Don's guitar build, it eliminates any pull wear on the Al rods at the bend point too. Just my 2 cents

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