Archtop lap steel, why yes, why no???

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 15 Jun 2008 11:12 am

I am picturing a non-cut away L5 style archtop with a squareneck and 8 strings. is there a reason this would or would not work? i figure it would have a neck position pickup, rosewood/ebony bridge and tailpiece.

Basically, exactly the same as a roundneck but, with a

Thinking of doing an organ trio

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 15 Jun 2008 1:26 pm

Was it the MacAfferrie people (or however you spell that) that made the original gypsy jazz style guitars? They made one called the, "Hawaiienne." I am told those used archtop construction. If that is true, I can't see why an L5 design wouldn't work.

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 15 Jun 2008 1:55 pm

As with any hollow or semi-hollow design feedback could be an issue in higher volume situations. My Gibson ES175 is very prone to feedback and harmonics but my ES137 with a mahogany block in it has much less tendency to do so.

Done right I think you could have sustain "for days" as they say.

Darrell Urbien · Post by **Darrell Urbien** » 15 Jun 2008 2:54 pm

Maccaferri Hawaiiennes were "archtops" in that the thin tops were "bent" and "domed" over braces. They weren't carved like an L5.

7 string Hawaiienne

Modern Indian lap-style "guitars" as played by Vishwa Mohan Bhatt and Debashish Bhattacharya are truly archtops, but I'm not sure whether they're pressed plywood or carved.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 15 Jun 2008 3:27 pm

My abdo-lute favorite bottleneck guitar is my mid '50's National Debonaire. Pup rewound by Jason Lollar. I think this guitar would sound very good as a lapsteel.
Yeah, feedback could be an issue, but this thing has the most wonderful tone!

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 15 Jun 2008 3:36 pm

they make feedback suppressors for a reason

I was thinking about Indian steel and the archtop factor. Seems to make sense.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 15 Jun 2008 9:58 pm

AJ Azure wrote:I am picturing a non-cut away L5 style archtop with a squareneck and 8 strings....

There's an easy way to try it out. Just put a nut riser on a regular archtop. If you like the sound then you can invest the time in building your 8-string version.

Tim Carlson · Post by **Tim Carlson** » 16 Jun 2008 3:59 am

some might consider that it would sound to dark with the neck pickup. I've always been a huge fan of that "woman" sound, though, regardless of what something is "supposed" to sound like.

I think Alan hit the nail on the head. Do a cheap "practice run" by slightly modifing another guitar, before you invest the time and money into a big project.

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 16 Jun 2008 9:58 am

yep, I was thinking an old kay or harmony

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 16 Jun 2008 10:07 am

An old Kay or Harmony would be a great way to test the waters, I'll bet it sounds sweet

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 16 Jun 2008 10:18 am

I was aboutto mention Indian classical music as an example of archtops working well for that, Darrell. Lots of potential pitfalls but I bet it would be good if you could pull it together.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 16 Jun 2008 11:33 am

May I direct you to this thread:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=115470

HowardR brought this Benoit over when it was finished and, while I didn't have a lot of time to play it, it was beautiful and, as I recall, very nice sounding, as well.

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 16 Jun 2008 12:50 pm

Mike Neer wrote:May I direct you to this thread:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=115470

HowardR brought this Benoit over when it was finished and, while I didn't have a lot of time to play it, it was beautiful and, as I recall, very nice sounding, as well.

I know all of (and have drooled over) Howard's resos. However, I am thinking Charlie Christian / Wes Montgomery tone and that's not coming out of any reso.

This is mainly for an organ trio concept and a regular lap steel is not going to feel or sound the same. nor look the same

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 16 Jun 2008 12:58 pm

Can't find that durn old raised nut thing I had. But I did play my National Debonaire on my lap thru my hot Princeton Reverb. Very nice fat, jazz guitar sound when I didn't clack the frets.

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 16 Jun 2008 2:01 pm

Wow, those are wonderrful guitars. I love just about any National I've ever seen.

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 16 Jun 2008 2:09 pm

those are darn pretty!

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 16 Jun 2008 2:20 pm

Thanks guys! They are vastly under-rated guitars I also installed a bridge peizo(sp) on the blond with a stereo jack. True jazz-style, nothing is mounted to the top!
The way these innovative necks are constructed, I'm sure there'd be no need to have a square neck. They're as strong as steel! I use 16-56 strings. I think they would make great archtopped lapsteels.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 16 Jun 2008 6:23 pm

If you can't find a nut riser put an exacto knife handle under the strings....

Or you could send me your mailing address and I'll mail you one.

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 17 Jun 2008 11:41 am

I've got one thanks Alan

now I need someone to mail me an old archtop

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 17 Jun 2008 11:55 am

Keep your eyes peeled for Nationals! I paid $110 for the blonde, and $285 for the sunburst about 4 or 5 years ago. They're more now, but usually still reasonable.

Levi Gemmell · Post by **Levi Gemmell** » 26 Jul 2018 7:55 pm

Recently, I spent an afternoon with Glenn Ross Campbell, of "The Misunderstood" fame. He has an archtop lap that he built himself with a modified neck that takes eight strings... Strung up in a special tuning of his own designed especially to play jump blues, and I'll tell you he gets the T-Bone Walker licks, as well as some fine jazzy harmonies, with hardly a slant in sight.

I am aware that he has an account - so if you're reading Glenn, I'd love to see a good photograph of it on here!

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 26 Jul 2018 8:27 pm

Archtop vs. flattop is (or should be) a choice of which one gets you your preferred selection of frequencies. There was a period in jazz guitar, mid-60's to 70's-something, where a lot of people were playing "Charlie Parker licks" with real even timing and volume, no inflection and a really dark, dead tone. Dut-dut-dut-dut... NOT Kenny Burrell or Barney Kessel, and John McLaughlin and Pat Metheny effectively broke that mold. But overall, it seemed to me at the time that flattop players had more zing available from their choice of guitars. Flattops are just REAL LIVELY for jazz, IMO.

And the best acoustic slide guitar I ever had (sigh) was some old Epiphone 12-string that I set up with six heavy-gauge electric strings. $50 and it could EAT dobros for morning snacks, out-BLAST anything acoustic... DOWN, fiddle! Ha! Poor little weenie-tone mandolinist... best of all,

Fee-Fie-Fum-Fo - I smell the blood of a ban-jo!
I was young once...

Although you can pretty much re-EQ anything these days, archtops seem to naturally swallow up the high frequencies, and I'd rather do that at the end of the signal path with electronics.

Paul Seager · Post by **Paul Seager** » 27 Jul 2018 2:13 am

I love the idea of an 8 string, squareneck archtop! I have an experimental instrument, neither squareneck nor 8 string. It's an old German Hopf guitar, built in the 60's probably - there are dozens of this type of instrument available on local Ebay's built by Framus, Klira and many other companies and they are called "Schlaggitarren", basically hard strummers! They are solidly built but lack truss-rods so inevitably subject to neck-twists over time. It makes little difference if you are converting it to a lap steel though! The guitar didn't cost me much and I bought it purely for its look.

Mine has been tuned A6 in the past but currently it's tuned open G as I am teaching myself some Bluegrass stuff. Even though the guitar is tough, this is as adventurous as I get with tunings. I have day-dreamed about having a squareneck built for it but nothing more than day-dreaming; basically I don't have enough time to play the many instruments I own!

The pickup is a Shadow floating bridge type. Not the loudest but it was a quick mount and replaced the old bridge. It sounds ok through an amp, although the guitar is nothing special acoustically. The piece of foam under the strings, behind the bridge is to stop the strings ringing, which was both loud and annoying.

Please let us know how your idea progresses!

\ paul

Paul Seager · Post by **Paul Seager** » 27 Jul 2018 2:19 am

Ah but to your question, why yes, why no?

Yes because they look so good and its nice when they lie there on your lap (I am still talking guitars!)

No, I guess I'd be nervous about their fragility but then there are 12 string acoustics and I think Gold Tone make an 8 string resonator so it can be done!

I would say go for it!

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 27 Jul 2018 10:00 am

I've tried it on a few guitars over the years.

IMO you don't get very good tone and DO get poor sustain unless there's a center block like on an ES-335. I tested a Gretsch Anniversary with a humbucking; another with a pair of D'Armond single coils, and a center-block model with humbuckings.

The hollowbodies were very boomy, even on the bridge pickup. And the only decent sustain happened when they started to feed back. Controlling that is not easy. The centerblock model just sounded dull.

FWIW none of these make very good slide guitars either - so I tried my Firebird 1 as a lap steel. THAT worked fine.

IMO the hollowbody idea will only be practical if the instrument has a centerblock, strong pickups and already works well as a slide guitar.

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Archtop lap steel, why yes, why no???

Archtop lap steel, why yes, why no???

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