Speaker Cabs: Closed vs. Open back

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 1 Jun 2008 6:26 pm

I have a Walker Stereo Steel amp and I'm about to purchase 2 Walker 15" speaker cabinets for it. I keep waffling back and forth, and am losing sleep over this decision.

My choices are:

1] Cabs: Open vs Closed back

2] Speakers: BW 1501-DT vs. JBL D130 (w/ new 150w coil).

I'm currently using an N-400 w/a single 1501 and like the sound fairly well. My reasion for change is a) lighter individual pieces)...b) 2 speakers for fuller sound.

Your opinions are welcome.......

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 1 Jun 2008 7:04 pm

Neither...

IMHO the best speaker cab for pedal steel is a THD 2X12" cab with a jbl 12" and a THD or Celestion 12". THis is an open back, ported cabinet.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 1 Jun 2008 8:16 pm

Dan, I heard you (and it) at the NW Steel Jam in Vancouver and both sounded impressive......but how much does that "bad boy" weigh?

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 2 Jun 2008 3:04 am

Keep in mind that the new neo Black Widow magnets retrofit the original Super Structure models that shipped in all Nashville 400's. This will reduce the weight of the amp by six pounds, and that can be a lot of weight reduction at 1AM in the morning.

You may order through your local authorized Peavey dealer or through the factory parts department at 1-877-732-8391, ext. 1386. Oh yeah, made in America at a Meridian, Mississippi facility.

Mike Brown
Peavey USA

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 2 Jun 2008 4:10 am

Tony I understand that 1501's like an open back cabinet. Mike Brown comment??

If the JBL is only 150 watts I would go with the BW as they handle much much more.

Larry Behm

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 2 Jun 2008 5:39 am

Thanks, Tony!

That actually wasn't my 2X12" cab, that was a THD cab with 1X12" JBL E120, and two 10" THD Longhorn speakers. THat's a heavy puppy, maybe 40 pounds. But it's a stereo cabinet, so you would only need one.

For light weight and clean steel, I'd go with a stereo THD 2X12" cab with the Peavey neo Black widows. Or one neo black widow and a high power rated speaker with a paper cone (I just like to mix the aluminum cone speakers with a non-aluminum cone one).

The THD cabs are great because they combine the 'open' sound of an open back cab with the increased efficiency and low end response of a ported cab. Plus, because they make a stereo model, you only need one cab.

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 2 Jun 2008 7:59 am

only 150 watts ??

How loud do you guys play ?? If 2 150 watt speakers is not enough ? I play in pretty loud bands, both PSG and overdriven lap steel and I haven`t blown my original cone D130F (about 50 w)yet.Same with a K120, Celestion Lead 80,Weber California 10 etc.I`d need earplugs to blow them and survive

Maybe I`m exaggerating a little, but still, how much do we really need ?
Oh, the poll...
I prefer an open back with a JBL.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 2 Jun 2008 9:49 am

When I first went to a head cab with separate speakers, I used closed-back cabs. But all the guitar players I play with had open back combos. I noticed that their sound seemed to fill the room more, and mine was more directional. This is mostly in small rock clubs. To match my sound to theirs, I have been switching over to open back cabs. What seems to work best is slats that cover about two-thirds of the back. They still have all the bass response I need for pedal steel, but better match the sound of the guitar players.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 2 Jun 2008 1:24 pm

When I first went to a head cab with separate speakers, I used open back cabs.

I assume you meant "closed-back", and then switched to "open-back"? Typo?

My experience is a lot like David's. I like what I term "semi open-back", which means it's got quite a bit more back covering than the typical Fender tube amp, but still has some type of significant opening in the back. One bass amp I liked a lot had a roughly 4-5" diameter circular port in the middle of the back, but otherwise it was closed-back. Another cab I like has enough paneling to cover about 2/3 of the back.

But I don't care for a completely sealed, basically acoustic-reflex cab. There's a strong resonance in the low to low-midrange frequencies that just dominates too much, not to mention the lack of dispersion in the higher-mid to higher frequencies that David referred to. Conversely, my favorite rhythm guitar amp was a piggyback white-tolex, brown-panel Fender Tremolux, with a 10" or 12" speaker in a fairly small, sealed cabinet. There, that resonance worked to give big, fat, clean chords. But I always switched in another amp to open up the sound a bit when soloing or doing other single-string work. Same with steel - that resonance just overwhelms things, to my tastes.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 2 Jun 2008 5:52 pm

Come on.......I need more input!!!!!.....exercise your vote.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 2 Jun 2008 7:09 pm

Doh! I meant I started using closed-back separate speaker cabs, but I'm now switching to open backs. I edited my typo.

Bill OConnor · Post by **Bill OConnor** » 2 Jun 2008 10:49 pm

Here is what my son did to use in different rooms.sometimes close to the wall sometimes nothing behind .He took an old enclosed cabinet hinged the back and made adjustable stops to vary the amount opening for different rooms.It worked well for lead guitar .

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 3 Jun 2008 6:53 am

Come on!.........Stop the apathy!.........Forumite decisions hang in the balence, so vote now!

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 3 Jun 2008 7:03 am

Get a JBL in one and a BW in the other. Open backs.

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 3 Jun 2008 7:11 am

To me there is only one way:
1501 DT or SB with the open back.

BUT use the 1/3 opening with slats as David suggested. That way you still get plenty of bass, yet you have the room filling volume of the open back.

Open back seems to cut through the mix better for me.

Closed back (even ported) always seemed too bassy(boomy) for me.
IMHO.

Ray DeVoe · Post by **Ray DeVoe** » 3 Jun 2008 3:56 pm

Hi Tony

I have always been a fan of the open back cabinet with 1501 -4 BW.

I have used K 130's and Emminence Kappalite's and such and even tried out closed back cabinets on one side of a power amp and an open back on the other output. I currently also have an Evans SE 200 hybrid with a Delta lite 2515.

I always tend to go back to the 1501-4 as they are great work horses when it comes to all around sound, and dependability. They cut through well and are easily available. I beleive that some top players might tell you to use a BW for general purpose and a D 130 for recording.

One way to solve your closed / open back question would be to purchase two new combination cabinets from our Forum buddy, Fred Justice.

He provides great products and now makes a cabinet where the closed back can be removed allowing the cabinet to be a standard open back. I am not trying to talk you out of Walker cabinets but this is just another avenue if you are that undecided. Walker may offer the same type of setup.?

The best of both worlds.!!

The true bottom line is this.

It's your ear that you are trying to please and what most other players use may not be your ideal sound!!!!!

Ray DeVoe

Bill A. Moore · Post by **Bill A. Moore** » 3 Jun 2008 4:35 pm

You have no option for EV speakers, but I am using 2-12" EV-S in 1/2 of a EV designed 4-12 enclosure. The cabinet is capable of 50 hz, and the 12S speakers have a mid frequency bump over the 12L series. My wife has used this cabinet for low power bass guitar, and it works great. Keep in mind that I am not performing in public, but years ago, a steel player was working with us and blew his BW in his Peavey Nashville 1000. To keep him in the show I brought one of these to the gig, and told him to use it with his D-10. At the end of the week, we loaded out, and I could not find my mid cabinet. Finally went to his truck to pay him for the 2 weeks, and it was in the back, he told me to keep the money, and he'll keep the cabinet. I sold him a couple of speakers at cost, and gave him my reworked cabinet plans. I believe all of us have different ears, but there's a lot to be said for clean, uncolored, EV sound.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 3 Jun 2008 5:36 pm

Thanks to everyone....with your help this the decision has been made. I'm ordering:

Open back cabs.....(22 vs. 2)
BW 1501's ............(18 vs. 6)

(which is the way I was originally leaning anyway!)

Josh Engle · Post by **Josh Engle** » 3 Jun 2008 6:14 pm

Did you try talking to Gerry himself?
This guy is REALLY into tone. We talked about an hour on the phone today, as I was recently in the same situation. I built my own though. He is very knowledgeable and could help you get the tone you want. He loves to help us guys out.
By the way, one more vote for open-back JBL's. I prefer my new open-back cabs over the closed back Gerry sells. Although mine don't have the low end "punch", they seem to have a "smoother" low end to them. I think they sound a little warmer and less "direct and crisp" if that makes any sense.
Could someone experienced in both shed some light on the differences between the black widows and the d130s, as far as tone is concerned? Is one "thinner" sounding, etc?

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 3 Jun 2008 8:42 pm

Josh Engle wrote:Did you try talking to Gerry himself?
This guy is REALLY into tone.

I've been on the phone w/ Gerry more than a few times and the guy is nothing but helpful and gracious. I will be ordering a pair of open back special order cabs from him.

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