I HAD- past tense- a similar knee lever in addition to the C pedal, with the idea that I could raise the 4th string wile holding the A and B pedals down. After living with this change for a year or two, I decided I preferred to use the C pedal, in part to get those Hendrix inspired rock licks in the video I posted earlier, but mostly because I felt that the pedal worked better.
I eventually took the knee lever off.
Mike, I watched the youtube video, but couldnt pick out the licks you are referring to. Since Hendrix style licks are something I desperately want to acheive on the psg, I was wonderin if you could point out the time in the video where they occur, or maybe even shed some light on what you are doin?
Right now the ONLY BC lick I am using is string 4 and 1 two frets down from root mashin BC to get a unison lick like in "Hey Joe"
I did keep the 'Bb' lever; it has a split with P3 (B->C#), which creates many fine chords with the separate E->F# lever, P3 on or off.
Flexibility and speed could be tradeoffs.
Altho Mr. Emmons may be the greatest pedal steel player alive, I think Jimmy Day got the first two pedals right.
Goofy feet and funny levers are the playing field of the musical hobbyist.
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons
Mike, I watched the youtube video, but couldnt pick out the licks you are referring to. Since Hendrix style licks are something I desperately want to acheive on the psg, I was wonderin if you could point out the time in the video where they occur, or maybe even shed some light on what you are doin?
Ben, the licks start at 2 minutes and one second and last about 5 seconds.
I am using the 1st and 4th strings. I hit both with the C pedal off, and depress it so that the 4th string bends up to a unison with the 1st. The melody notes are determined by bar placement. The C pedal is used only to get the second-to-unison effect.
Jimi did a similar second-to-unison thing in the song "Highway Child" in which he held a note on the second string and bent the 3rd string up to match it.
I hope this will play. Getting the diminished chord progression uses P3 (B->C#), E->F# and Bb lever, split with the B raise.
An additional benefit if being able to split P1 with P2 to get a Im. Not to mention a great V chord with the E lower....
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons
Ben Jones wrote:Tho I know a few C pedal licks, I am too scared to go for em in a 'live" situation...they are strictly used in the bedroom and even there...its rare..i have to think "I better run thru my c pedal licks so i dont loose em". The C pedal lies outside my comfort zone, so I NEVER go there when improvising. I actually have to look under the guitar when moving to that pedal to make sure i hit it. I dunno...its been 2.5 years now, and I still cant integrate that pedal into my playing. I will be taking a good long look at Mr. Cutshaws C pedal stuff, maybe it will be the spark I need.
I know what you mean! I have a couple tunes where I use some B+C pedal licks and I often (though not always) actually sneak a peek under the guitar to make sure my foot's in the right place!
I usually use the C pedal by itself on the E string to imitate the single line licks I play on strat on the B string. They're my David Torn licks.
I got it to play by downloading the file and then adding the .mp3 file extension. For some reason, the file name had no extension when I downloaded it.
When I got my first 12 string around '77 or so, one of the first things to go was the C pedal. My old 'bud had only three floor pedals so I moved the A & B pedals to slots 2 & 3 and then made my 1st pedal lower the 3rd & 6th G# strings to G. I kept adding pedals to that guitar and eventually dropped the 1st pedal changes I had in favor of raising the 7th string to G#.
My current BMI S-12 has no legitimate C pedal to speak of but I do have a "Mooney" pedal in the 8th slot which does nothing except raise the 4th string to F# and is activated by the right foot. It's wonderful for those fast Mooney licks. I figured if Ralph uses two feet why not try it out so I did and I love it.
Some things that I might have to have a C pedal for are gotten a different way. For instance if you were in the key of G and wanted to go to a II minor then a III minor, normally one would be at the third fret and use the B & C pedals.
For the same thing you can be at the 8th fret with your E's lowered and using your A pedal and letting off of the E lever gives you the same move(s)......JH in Va.
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!
Not very long! I declined to wiser fellows who said just play the d@mn Emmons setup.
I really like having hi F# and C# separate, to play off each other. Leaves a pedal to play with.
Just fun....
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons
Parts for some guitars are too hard to locate or just too expensive from the folks that do have them. PSG's have a limited number cross-rods and places to put pedals. So sometimes if we want to have a change we do so by giving up an existing pedal or by moving existing parts to another cross-rod.
Every time I have investigated making changes or adding parts to either my MSA or my Emmons I soon realized that the headache and the cost were prohibitive for me.
My Sierra came with some spare parts and I am very fortunate to have them.
I played my first gig last week. It went pretty well, but someone video taped it and the one and only time I used the C pedal, you can clearly see me on the videotape, stop playing, look under the guitar put my foot on the C pedal and then resume playing.
The main use of the BC combination is to get a IIm, which of course can be moved to other frets for other minors, for example the relative minor at the V fret. I like the sound of that BC change so much that I raise my 8th string E to F# on the C pedal. I use it enough that I can hit it comfortably without looking. However, we all have two or three other ways to get minor chords, and of all of them, I use the BC combination the least. It is one of the least used of all my combinations.
If someone has some other change in mind that they would use more, I see no problem with switching the C pedal with that. Sure, they will have to do without the C pedal licks. But many people don't use those even if they have the C pedal. And they will gain whatever it is they replace it with; and people who keep the C pedal will not have that. So it's like many less frequently used possible changes. It's only essential to you if you make it an essential part of your playing. And if you don't, it's not - and something else may be an essential part of your playing.
Ben, try raising the height of the C pedal so you can "feel" the pedal as your foot moves to the right.
Like others in this post I opted for a knee lever raising e->f#, instead of the C pedal. Did this when I first got my MSA in 1970... so I've had this change for quite some time. To me it seems more versitile... allowing independent raising of the E string 1, or 2 frets... as well as using it with the other pedals for the more standard C pedal licks. I may be wrong in my thinking... but it seems to me raising two strings with one pedal made more sense before the evolution of knee levers... and this pedal change has been carried over from the earlier setups more because of "tradition" than practical utility.
With that said.... Donnie brings up a great point. New players should start with as standard a setup as possible, so they can take advantage of the instructional aids that are available today (in my early days the only instructional aid was the 16 1/2 RPM speed on the turn table ). After you are feeling comfortable with your playing would be the time to look for individual changes to your copedant...IMHO.
Dave Wren
'96 Carter U12,7X7; 1936 7 string National; Line 6 HX Stomp; Quilter TT-15/TB202; Quilter "Steelaire"; DV Mark "GH 250"with 15" 1501 BW; Boss "Katana" 100 Head w/Line 6 Cab; Telonics VP.
To answer Steves question, Joe Black did have the E to F# change on a lever. And I will stand by what I said about his playing. When Joe played a Buddy Emmons tune, you could close your eyes & you would think it was Buddy. He was from Central City Pa, & played a lot in the Pittsburg Pa area. Joe was a really good country player & played all that 'soupy' stuff on his old MSA D-12. I, on the other hand, can play a little country but also like playing a lot of things on the B6th tuning which doesent require all that much 'soup' but lots of single string things. If you have a 'C' pedal on your guitar, thats ok, nothing wrong with that, but I don't consider anyone 'stupid' or 'ignorant' for having it on a lever, remember, just my opinion & it does not apply to anyone but me!!
That 4th-y slide with the C pedal is the ultimate R&B sound and great for all kinds of pop stuff. Of course Mike P is right about harmonized scales, & it gives you a very convenient ii chord -- try messing around with the C pedal on a ii-V-I song like "Brass buttons" and you'll be glad you did. I guess if you're really coordinated and have the E-f# on a knee lever you could do the same thing with the lever and A pedal, but then you'd have to be really coordinated ...
I'm not familiar with the tune "Brass Buttons", so I don't know if this would apply there, but for ii chords, as long as they don't need to rapidly alternate with the I chord, two frets up with 3 & 6 lowered 1/2 step serves very well, with the added benefit that the 8th and 10th strings are part of the available minor triad voicing choices, and the sixths, sevenths, and ninths available on strings 1, 2, 7, and 9 and their changes are the same as for the major triad on the same fret.
Charlie i can`t believe you did not play the Emmons setup and went to the Day tuning.
Hey Mike . don`t know what you are sniffin` out there in California. Let me get you UN-SHOCKED. There is no such animal as the DAY TUNING. Probably what you meant to say was the Day setup. Whether you play the Emmons setup or the Day setup, the open string tuning is identical. 3 floor pedal setup is
EMMONS; a, b, c
DAY; c, b, a
As you can see the 3 floor pedal Day setup is just reversed but produces the same results as the Emmons 3 floor pedal setup. So it`s just a preference as to whether you want to rock from right to left with your left foot with the Emmons setuo or rock from left to right with the Day setup. Now let`s get to the knee levers. As jeff newman once said and i Quote. "Knee levers are all over the place under there, it doesen`t matter where they are as long as YOU know where they are and what they do". I have heard students say that their instructor told them that if they used the Emmons setup there was a lot more instruction material available for this setup. Hogwash. The instructors probable only knew the Emmons setup. I`m sure there is a lot more Emmons setup players than Day setup players. The reason is there probably is a lot more Emmons instructore than Day instructors. musically the end result is the same. So Mike don`t get these young students off to the wrong start. By the way JEFF NEWMAN PLAYED THE DAY SETUP and was probably the premier steel guitar instructor world wide. Bet you can`t guess I PLAY THE DAY SETUP.
The C pedal gives so much and it's so simple! Why mess with it? Greg Cutshaw's C material is testimonial enough for me. Sure there are other ways to get the moves, but they don't seem as simple as just having the C pedal.
In an average 2 hour gig how often do you use your C pedal?
A lot, but not as much as say the E or F levers. Somebody way up this thread said it just sorta depends on your playing style, and I think that's a pretty true statement. I use it for the convenient ii chord, but I've found a bunch of other ways to use it where I have no idea what I'm doing other than it 'sounds good' and gets me off the tired AB pedal licks.
from the folks that do have them. PSG's have a limited number cross-rods and places to put pedals. So sometimes if we want to have a change we do so by giving up an existing pedal or by moving existing parts to another cross-rod. 
and I am very fortunate to have them.
). After you are feeling comfortable with your playing would be the time to look for individual changes to your copedant...IMHO.
