A couple of newbie questions...

Daniel Davis · From: Washington, USA

Even though my PSG won't be in my hands until mid-July, I want to make sure that I have everything I need in my possession for when it arrives.

So, what kind of steel bar should get?

Does it matter?

Why?

Also, what about picks?

I already have a volume pedal and a couple of amps and effects units, so I'm good in this department.

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

you gonna get a ton of different answers on these questions

best thing just pick what you like but i will say this on the picks, get a good 24 gage (heavy)
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proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Daniel Davis · From: Washington, USA

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

most swear by one over the other
i have a Dunlop and a Emmons
i have started using the Emmons more just because i like the heavy weight
some will say this brand or that is smoother or harder ..just find one that you like .
its not the bar, its the hands that are holding it that makes the difference
_________________
proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Daniel Davis · From: Washington, USA

bob Ousby · From: Nevada, USA

Welcome! Initially, I bought a metal bar, can't say whether it's chrome or stainless, that's 15/16's and weighs 11 oz. My teacher remarked: "nice doorstop you got there". I just recently bought a glass lead-filled bar (Boyette's Glass Bars) 7/8 by 3 3/8 and weighs about 7 oz. I find it alot better to handle. Met with my psg teacher last night and he was impressed.
I also just bought some Perfect Touch finger picks. I had been using Dunlops. The P-T's are very good and I wont go back to the Dunlops. PS- I just started a thread called "Beginner's Corner".

Chris Buchanan · From: Macomb, IL

Dan-the first bar I got was a 1" stainless that did'nt fit my hand. So I bought a cheap chrome 7/8 " to try. It's much better. Get something that will fit your hand and not stress or fatique it. The bar makes a huge difference, and no doubt you'll go through many till you find "The One." I suggest you start with a 7/8 since that's the standard. Then you can gauge what might be a better size. As for quality, untill you feel sure you've found the right fit, some cheaper Ernie Ball or Dunlop bars might save you some cash. But do at some point invest in a quality bar, as they do make a difference for reasons already stated in other threads.

I think most players, myself included, prefer fingerpicks of around .26 gauge, and I like medium Dunlop thumbs. As for style...you're on your own. Just get something to start with and see where it takes you. That's part of the fun, right?
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GFI Ultra S-10, Nashville 112, stuff.

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

MY 2c

Yes, there is a bar called a Red Rajah. It is coated with something red that is easier to hold onto and is more quiet on the strings. I liked it but the coating does begin to wear. Still a nice bar. I think it can be recoated.

IMHO Chrome plated bars sound better on stainless steel wound strings. A Stainless steel bar sounds better on nickel wound strings.
Find a bar with a good indention for the thumb. (I usually remove the label). At some point, you will want to slant the bar, and you need a good indention.
7/8 is a popular choice. Length? whatever feels good. IF you are like many players I know, you will end up with 6 or more until you decide. I use a "10 string bar" on a twelve string guitar. It is not necessary for me to cover all 12 at the same time.

I also like Dunlop 0.0225 picks. A little softer for my wimpy fingers.

Good luck.

Daniel Davis · From: Washington, USA

Thanks for the info guys.

Good stuff!

Daniel Davis · From: Washington, USA

How much $ should I spend on a bar?

I've seen prices range from $12-$70!

Yikes!

I don't want to be suckered into buying something expensive when something cheap will do.

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Daniel-go down to dusty string here in seattle and just buy yourself a few different finger picks and thumbpicks and see what you like. They are a pain to get used to at first and different folks bend em and adjust in different ways. Some use small bandaids or glasses nose guard pads to line the insdes of em so they dont hurt your fingers as much (search this site for the word "cuticle" and you'll probably get some pictures of that). I became attached to this stupid blue no name thumbpick and can only use them now...cannot remembr where i got it and dread the day I inevitably loose it.

-for a bar, its really about personal preference but there are some bars designed to last longer than others. The finish on some bars will wear down over time and start to flake off. I bought a pearse cryo bar two years ago , have dropped it many times and the thing just wont scratch or become damaged in any way no matter how hard I try.
http://www.jpstrings.com/braccess.htm#TCBar

more expensive but worth it IMHO.

you may wanna wait for some of the pros to weigh in on this...or do a some thorough seraching on this forum. there have been some long threads on bars and picks..probably a bit hard to search for tho as "pick" and "bar" are used in about every other sentence here
Here is a thread on bars...you'll find ALOT of differing opinons here Rolling Eyes

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=109092&highlight=cryogenic

what kind of volume pedal do you have?
That is a hot topic of debate on these forums as well.

Daniel Davis · From: Washington, USA

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

for what its worth :
if you can afford it the Hilton is hard to beat
or any other potless volume pedal for that matter
i'll never go back to pots
_________________
proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Emmett Clough · From: Arkansas, USA

Different strokes for different folks, but the kelly speed picks seem hard to beat to me. As has been stated before try some different ones.

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

I like the BJS bar cost more sounds best to me. Golden Gate thumb picks have proved to be the best for me. Before I used Jeff Newman thumb picks and they woud break after a month, the golden gate will last for years, now going on the 3rd year for the same pick. I like Jagwire strings have not had one break in over 2 1/2 years and sound good for months.
The Hilton pedal cannot be beat for sound and playability. Pack seat Stealers choice for me with back rest. Amp Nashville 112, for weight and sound.
A DD3, I will not play without one, improves your sound ands that is all I have in the sound chain.
You will recieve many different ideas but this is what works for me, after much trial and error.

ernie

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Daniel- be advised that guitar volume pedals are not ideally suited for pedal steel. I beleive the difference is mainly in the "throw" but I bow to the greater expertise of my fellow forumites on that.

Dusty strings does have some bars ...but I am not sure if they psg bars, maybe just dobro bars? dont hurt to ask and look at some tho.

I would be remiss if i didnt mention that strings, instructional material, and cds you cannot find elsewhere are sold here thru the forum. The stuff arives at your door the day after you order it, and the money helps keep this place goin. I HIGHLY recommend getting your strings from here and that you take a good look at the cds and instructional stuff for sale here as well.

edit: oh and since your into ambient/experiemntal steel another steeler you might be interested in is Susan Alcorn...http://www.susanalcorn.com/

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Try a bunch of picks out. They are pretty cheap and available at regular music stores. I use Fred Kelly standard thumb picks and Showcase 41's finger picks. The National reissues look pretty good also. Be careful buying a bar at a store. They generally have no idea of what they are doing and will sell you a Stevens type bar or a Dunlop that will wear out for too much money. In NYC Dunlop dumped a couple hundred useless monster sized bars on music stores a while back that students show up with sometimes. For bars I use the standard 7/8ths and prefer the BJS and the John Pearse. I also use a tribotone sometimes.
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Bob

Daniel Davis · From: Washington, USA

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Daniel Davis · From: Washington, USA

Does Susan post here?

I see she doesn't have any digital downloads of her stuff on iTunes or elsewhere.

Shame, shame.

Smile

I'd buy some stuff if it were available digitally.

I'd really like to hear her stuff, especially with her involvement with Eugene Chadbourne.

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

She posts very rarely. Alot of her stuff is very avante/experimental and that stuff tends to provoke an unfavorable response from the hard core old country crew around here (not that thats necessarily why she doesnt post often). It is a shame the Louisiana clip isnt working....very beautiful.

heres some stuff on her myspace page...Im just listening to it for the first time as I type this myself.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=142540999

Daniel Davis · From: Washington, USA

Daniel Davis · From: Washington, USA

That track Twin Beams, on her Myspace, is really nice.

I can definitely hear myself doing stuff like this, mixed in with some electronic noises and stuff.

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

Daniel,,For learning you should stick to common stuff since most learning material is based on there use. Also cheap is good right now because you dont know what size, thickness etc you need in things. Once you get the basics down and figure out what your limitations are you can upgrade your equip better.

Bar: get a bullet nose 7/8 . For learning get a jim Dunlop from dusty strings. Later when you know what size you like order a better one. The 7/8 is on the smaller end for most people, but it is easier to control when learning. I use a 7/8 regularly. Your gonna drop and ruin whatever bar you learn on, so cheap is good for starters. DONT get a stevens or anything with a groove. You want a cylinder of steel with a round nose. BJS bars are the favorites for MANY people, but you want to learn what size you need, and get through the damage your equipment phase of learning before droping a lot of money..

Picks: Good "CHEAP" finger picks are the dunlop,propick, national, and kaiser.

Good thumb picks are herco "blue", zookies, jim dunlop.

Stay away from the gimick picks for starting.

you want your thumb pick to look something like this (see below).

Stay away from those that look like guitar picks and metal ones for learning.

Volume pedal: You WILL need a different Volume pedal eventually, the difficulty in learning steel is in all the motor skills you have to develop.

Bar movement,
using BOTH feet,
using knees,
picking with those god awful things on your fingers,

so getting the proper v ped will help train your right foot. The movement is different and the pot is different. Steel pickups are higher output than guitars,, so you need a 500pot in the v ped. Also a guitar pedal isnt made to see the amount of movement that a steel ped receives. So it will wear out fast. Carter sells a cheap one.

I like the hiltons myself, no strings to break.

One last thing I like is a petersen tuner with preset steel tunings.You will figure out real quick that 440 doesnt work well with steel. But for now,, a needle tuner and a tuning chart will get you going till your ear develops. Jeff Newmans is a well used tuning chart
http://www.jeffran.com/tuning.php
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GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS

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