Uh, advice?

Joel Alvarez · Post by **Joel Alvarez** » 6 May 2008 3:58 pm

Ok, well i've been practicing scales and was getting confused because you always need to refer back to the major scale. Unless you have a photographic memory it can be hard to remmember each major scale while learning the minor. Everything just starts to get all jummbled into one big blah.
What helped me was to write down the steps rather than the roman numerals. I use a w(whole) and an h(half) to remmember the scales. It really helped to learn the major scale.
The major scale is: w w h w w w h. You can use this combo starting with any note and it would be a major scale. Look at any given scale and just write out the steps and that's the scale. Some scales will have a h+w which doesn't mean to climb(play) up one fret then skip one, it means to jump two frets.
I hope this will help someone. If this system is flawed in any way please feel free to uncover them and set me straight.
Thanks,
Joel
PS Any questions would also be appreciated.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 6 May 2008 6:29 pm

Joel,

Pretty close. Remember that from one root to the next root (an octave higher) there are 8 notes (including the two roots), which means 7 (not 8 ) spaces (intervals) between them. What you wrote is correct but you have written 8 intervals; you have an extra one at the end that you should remove. I'll re-write a C major scale using your remaining 7 intervals to make it explicit:

C(w)D(w)E(h)F(w)G(w)A(w)B(h)C

So the half-steps in a major scale are always between the 3rd and 4th notes, and the 7th and 8th notes.

And you are correct that this formula works for every major scale.

Now you can also see the intervals needed for the relative minor scale we were talking about in your other thread, that is, the minor scale that begins on the 6th tone of the major scale, using all the same notes. In this case (C) the 6th tone, as you can see above, is A. So, for an A minor scale, just start with the A from the lineup above and when you get to the end of the line start over at the beginning until you come again to the note you started with (in this case, A). In other words:

A(w)B(h)C(w)D(w)E(h)F(w)G(w)A

You'll note I just copied the same (w) and (h) pattern from the notes above, because, of course B and C always only have a half-step between them, as do E and F, so the (h)'s must still apply. Same for the (w)'s. Hope that's clear! I think you're well on your way to learning this stuff, Joel and by Jove, I think you're gonna get it down!

Best,
Jimbeaux

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 6 May 2008 7:21 pm

Joel has ordered his very first pedal steel guitar. I guess he's getting a good head-start while he's waiting for it!

Jim Robbins · Post by **Jim Robbins** » 6 May 2008 7:28 pm

It can be even simpler: two 4 note groups of w w h, separated by a whole step, to make w w h/w/w w h. So the second 4 note group starts on the 5th of the scale.
(BTW I didn't invent this - the ancient Greeks did, but it's an incredibly useful way of learning this stuff & making your licks do double duty).

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 6 May 2008 7:44 pm

Joel - there ARE those who do not think in terms of scales, and it could be you are overcomplicating (or overstressing over) the basics.

Sometimes learning basic I IV V chords (and a relative minor) and "banjo picking" or playing arpeggios with those simle positions will get you very far very fast. You get a good "ear" for the harmony of the chords, what the pedals do, and don't even worry about scales - use your ear and find little note combinations while holding a chord that sounds good, and flows well to the NEXT chord.

There are those who swear by playing scales on steel (or 6-string, or whatever) - and there are those who find it more practical to get something coherent going this way first...THEN go to scale studies if you want to. I've heard steel players who sound perfectly competent...yet they are basically playing banjo rolls in chord positions and using pedals for "note bending". Funny thing is, most the audience at a normal gig will think it sounds like a pedal steel!

My first pedal steel gig (years ago, before I quit and came back - 4 ets) was played on a Fender/Maverick I'd had for 3 weeks. I played some country, some country rock and some originals, all just chord-position and rolls/arpeggios. I got nothing but compliments all night although I had no clue what I ws doing except for finding pedals-down or pedals-up chord positions and mashing them at (usually) the right spot.

Honestly, I can barely play a major scale on 6-string to save my life it it goes more than one octave, can't play a minor scale at all, and have managed to work steadily for 40+ years - and what I play still has a "melodic" sound.

So don't approach things one way because someone told you it was the only "right" way - find the way that lets you find YOUR music. Just a thought if you're really frustrated. There is NO "proper" way to play steel - there's just what works for you.

Good luck -

Jim

Joel Alvarez · Post by **Joel Alvarez** » 6 May 2008 9:22 pm

10/4 Lee, Doug said that it should be ready early July!!
The reason for eight notes is it just sounds better, that's all. Played decending it sounds like "Joy to the World". That's kind of how I can tell if it's right.
I think I just learn different than some(most) people and was just trying to point out a way to learn to play the scales without really knowing the notes

. It also seems like your accomplishing something without knowing the notes and the person could still be making progress and not get discouraged. If I were to try to remmember each note of each scale it would take a long time. Hopefully someone could know the chord progression and not stress about the specific notes, just know the pattern. Maybe it's my learning disability... what were we talking about?
Anyway, thanks guys, I do appreciate y'all dealing with my ignorance. I thank you for the response and comments.
Thanks,
Joel...out
PS I have a new Goodrich, tone bars, Peavey Nashville 112, and picks, BUT NO STEEL!!! Doug please hurry

.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 7 May 2008 4:08 am

Joel Alvarez wrote:The reason for eight notes is it just sounds better, that's all. Played decending it sounds like "Joy to the World". That's kind of how I can tell if it's right.

Joel, 8 NOTES, yes, but not 8 INTERVALS, which is what you wrote. 8 notes have only 7 INTERVALS between them. When you wrote that last (8th) INTERVAL, it implied the 9th note, which does NOT sound like Joy to the World!

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 7 May 2008 4:37 am

The fencepost problem comes up again...

It take 8 fenceposts to hold up 7 rails,

Always gotta keep the distinction between nodes and intervals intact.

Jerry H. Moore · Post by **Jerry H. Moore** » 7 May 2008 5:24 am

What Jim Sliff said

Joel Alvarez · Post by **Joel Alvarez** » 7 May 2008 7:54 am

hey Jim, I went back to my initial post and your right, I added an extra w there at the end. Too many intervals. I'll see if I can edit.
Thanks,
Joel

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 7 May 2008 12:07 pm

I'm a half-way competent steeler, I can play in tune and in time, but I wouldn't know a scale even if I tripped over one.

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 7 May 2008 12:52 pm

If you try altering the major scale in a familiar major Positions on the neck you will never be able to remember those scales. Alter the position. For an example the A Major scale played at the 5th fret on the the E9 neck is also the B minor scale (the 2nd mode of A major). it is also a C# minor (the 3rd mode of A major) and etc.