Stiff pedals

Greg Wisecup · Post by **Greg Wisecup** » 2 May 2008 4:45 pm

Just got my first pro model. Thomas D 10
Some of the pedals depress harder than my Carter Starter. Everything moves freely. How do I or can I adjust the pedals to make them depress more easily?

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 2 May 2008 5:01 pm

If you connect the pull rods closer to the cross shafts on the bell cranks (closer to the steel guitar body) the pressure needed to activate them will be less but the travel needed to get to the same note will be greater so you might have to adjust the travel to accommodate a longer throw.

Greg Wisecup · Post by **Greg Wisecup** » 3 May 2008 4:06 am

Thanks Jim. I was hoping to hear something like-- Lube this or loosen that. I don't think I'm in the position to reconfigure the original build of the guitar. I just thought there may be a typical set of things to look for. I also assume that due the the extra beef under this guitar that also may affect the firmness of the pedals. The A pedal is great. B firmer, C firmer. Does the shortness of the pull in regards to leverage affect this issue? And is this relativley normal moving from The Carter starter to this 72 pd pro model? All help appreciated. Thanks, Greg

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 3 May 2008 5:23 am

I just thought there may be a typical set of things to look for.

What Jim gave you IS the typical thing to look for, and one that you can (and should be able to) do yourself. It's one of the few common things in steel setup - there are so many differences in mechanics that it can be a bit mind-boggling, but pedal stiffness normally boils down to this one item you can adjust. That's the "feel" part of a setup that a player can easily fine-tune to his liking. You take a close look at how the rods connect to the bellcranks, figure out which ones operate with the pedal(s) where stiffness is an issue, and move one (or more) rod connectors to a different hole closer to the body. Then you adjust the tuning of the pull (which will have changed slightly) and see if there's much difference.

You may find that no matter how close you get, it still feels stiff - if so, it's just the nature of the guitar, assuming it's properly lubed and nothing's hanging up.

Some bellcranks have a dozen holes; some may have 3. More holes means you can make more subtle adjustments to the feel. But there's no "standard" feel difference between a Starter and any particular "Pro" model...Every guitar I've had has felt different - some stiff, some loose; some smooth and linear throughout the pedal travel, some with a "hump" where they start loose, then stiffen, then loosen at the end of the pull. It's all in the particular mechanical design. I've never heard of Thomas guitars, so I have no idea what the particular rod attachment system is, but none of them are very complicated.

But you need to get "under the hood" and figure it out, because feel is a personal thing and no one can really do that for you.

Greg Wisecup · Post by **Greg Wisecup** » 3 May 2008 5:42 am

Thanks Jim. I was confused. I was thinking that I was supposed to change were the pedal rods connect. I understand now it's the pull rods. My bell cranks have 6-8 holes. You say I should move the rods higher in the bell crank/ towards the bottom of the guitar? I was thinking lower(towards the floor) for more leverage. (Thats why I shouldn't be thinking; just following instructions.) Thanks, Greg

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 3 May 2008 6:08 am

Move the rods closer to the guitar for easier/longer throw. It is just the opposite on the changer end- the closer to the guitar the rods are in the changer the quicker and stiffer the change will be (shorter pedal/lever movement to accomplish the same change)- it all comes with a price- long and easy or short and stiff. When you get about what you want as far as feel is concerned you should then attempt to get all the changes happening on the lever or pedal in question to start and stop simultaneously by fine tuning where each of the rods are located.

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 3 May 2008 6:17 am

Greg,
Lot of good info given. Also,you may want to check Carter website,there is a lot of good info with pictures.
(A picture is worth a thousand words.)

http://www.steelguitarinfo.com/adjustme ... ction.html

Greg Wisecup · Post by **Greg Wisecup** » 3 May 2008 6:20 am

Perfect Bill! That explains it even for me!! Thanks guys!

Bill Dobkins · Post by **Bill Dobkins** » 3 May 2008 6:22 am

Greg, after you do the pull rod thingy, if you have a problem check your return springs for your lowers.
Somthing to remember,the closer you put the pullrod to the crossshaft the more pedal travel you will have. Try to reach a happy medium.

John Coffman · Post by **John Coffman** » 4 May 2008 4:50 am

According to the picture you sent me. This is pretty normal for a Thomas to be stiff. This guitar has very little playing time and lots of sitting. You can try removing the spring that gives you your return pedal action. Doc Bowman always removes these for the stiffness in the pedal. Look at were the pedal fits in the slot and just remove the phillips screw. Just let the spring just hang there and try it. You should see a big change. The other thing I have found is the pedal board has set for sometime and the pedals are just stiff. Remove the pedal board from the steel. Then move the pedals up and let them come down on there own. They should be very limp. This is one of the things I run into. It could also be were the shink wrap tubing on the pull rods could be binding. This is a fun one to find.
I was talking to Mr. Robinson at the Dallas show this year and he put most of the Thomas guitars together for Barry. Super nice guy. If you can't get this firgured out we can call him. I am sure he can firgure out. Best of luck. I do like the blue color.

John Coffman · Post by **John Coffman** » 4 May 2008 6:15 pm

If your that unhappy with you purchase let me know. I might be able to find room for it. Check you email

Rocco Labriola · Post by **Rocco Labriola** » 5 May 2008 9:10 am

I recently had some problems involving stiff A & B pedal on my Thomas. At first it was bearable but it evolved into not being able to keep the b pedal pull in tune. My guy shorten the return spring but suspected there might be more to the problem. Sure enough a couple 3-4 gigs later the tuning problem returned. The stiffness also remained throughout this period.

What ended up solving all the problems was taking the whole changer apart and relubing the axle and everything. I was told many of the fingers were actually stuck to axle. Basically the changer was void of any kind of lube.

I've had the Thomas back for about a month and so far so good. The pedals are certainly smoother and equal in the way they feel.

I'm just sharing my experience, I am not an authority on the mechanics of psg.

Greg Wisecup · Post by **Greg Wisecup** » 5 May 2008 9:27 am

I am going to lube the changer fingers. This guitar does need some lube. I am going to try the spring thing too. Thanks for the ideas. Greg

John Coffman · Post by **John Coffman** » 5 May 2008 9:52 am

The changer could be the problem. I oil mine once a year. The changes are very close tolerance. Would not hurt to lube it.

Greg Wisecup · Post by **Greg Wisecup** » 5 May 2008 9:56 am

And the lube preference of the day is.............?

John Coffman · Post by **John Coffman** » 5 May 2008 10:11 am

This is a big bag of worms I will not open here check you email.

Greg Wisecup · Post by **Greg Wisecup** » 5 May 2008 10:21 am

Chicken......

John Coffman · Post by **John Coffman** » 5 May 2008 11:18 am

Bring up preferred lube is like talking about banjos. Sometimes it best to know you limitations. Yes I'm chicken. My wife is hand gun certified and she just might use it. Have a great time with you steel.

Rocco Labriola · Post by **Rocco Labriola** » 5 May 2008 11:34 am

My guy has theorized that you can not get lube to where it needs it the most, the axle, without taking the changer apart.

After disassembling my changer he questioned if the Thomas was properly lubricated in the first place, or perhaps it was lubed/cleaned with something that dried it out. Who knows?

I was advised not to lubricate at all and that the guitar should be good for 20 years. We'll see.

Greg Wisecup · Post by **Greg Wisecup** » 5 May 2008 11:49 am

If oiled at the fingers it wouldn't make it to the axle? Any time I oil anything it makes it to where it isn't supposed to go.

James Collett · Post by **James Collett** » 5 May 2008 1:57 pm

avoiding the lube subject, you can get it to the right parts of the guitar with a bottle with a long nozzle end (like Triflow comes in) or I've also heard an insulin syringe works.

Rocco Labriola · Post by **Rocco Labriola** » 5 May 2008 1:59 pm

From what I'm told, no it will not reach the axle. I'm sure we would have gone that route if it were that simple. Neither one of us was interested in taking the whole changer apart. It was the last resort.

However, I don't have the time, interest, or skill to conduct an experiment to 100% validate this claim. I trust the advice I've been given. I realize it is contrary to advice offered up here on the forum.

There is not much discussion about problems with Thomas', which is the only reason I've chimed in to share a similar problem with the same kind of guitar. We might not have the same problem, it's impossible to diagnose over the internets.

Greg Wisecup · Post by **Greg Wisecup** » 7 May 2008 4:38 am

I have a lead for anyone to address my stiff pedals, (which may be getting better or I am getting stronger.)When I got the guitar out of the case yesterday; I had a broken 3rd string. I depressed my ab pedals and it was like butter. The a was even better than it was and the b was like the a. Unfortunately I had to put the .o11 back on. Any thoughts?

David Weaver · Post by **David Weaver** » 14 Sep 2008 6:46 pm

I made the very bad mistake of using WD 40 on my guitars. The pedals got progressively stiff. I found a GREAT lubricant which is cleaning my guitar without a total disassembly. It's called CYCLE TUNE UP. I got it at a local bicycle shop. It has 800 350 8999 and is made by EEZ X.

The bike shop sold me that and TRI FLOW. They said that the CYCLE TUNE UP is a Teflon lubricant, much like TRI-FLOW, but has an alcohol base and dries, leaving the dry Teflon as the lubricant. I tried them both, but I think the CYCLE TUNE UP is actually cleaning the guitar out.

What I like about it is that the black gunk that has accumulated in the moving parts of the guitar bleeds out when the stuff is applied and used. The guitar was getting stiff and I had to apply conscious pressure to the pedals to fully depress them. Now, with this stuff, the guitars work better than ever.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 17 Sep 2008 11:39 am

get some of these, and fill the tips with #12 shot!

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