Carter Starter LKL

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 5 Apr 2008 4:49 pm

Just got a CStarter to play at rehearsal,allowing me to keep my SD10 Carter at home. The starter is what it is , and will work perfectly for my needs, the weekest thing on it being he LKL. It is connected directly to the lever on the rod, and is very flimsy.The leverage with the knee lever bends the assembly fairly easily. Has anyone corrected this on their own starter? Any pictures of the improvement?

Other than the weak knee, the guitar does work surprisingly well, I don't want this to be a "diss the Carter starter" thread, just some suggestions to make the guitar a little bit better. Thanks in advance, JimP

Adam Liette · Post by **Adam Liette** » 5 Apr 2008 5:50 pm

I also have a Carter Starter, and have problems with the LKL. I've brainstormed and looked it over, but no good idea that would seem (semi-) perfect. Hate to mess it up worse than it is. I'd be interested if anyone had fixed there's, too.

James Collett · Post by **James Collett** » 5 Apr 2008 7:51 pm

Same problem. I ordered steel knee levers in the place of the aluminum, and that didn't help. I'm considering buying a seperate KL assembly and makin that work.

Ed Javner · Post by **Ed Javner** » 6 Apr 2008 11:55 am

Mine was bad from the time I bought it (used) but after fighting it for a couple years, I made a 'L' bracket with a adj. screw for a stop. I'd send a pix but I got rid of it last year. It worked OK but had to be very gental with it. (I bought a Stage One)
Works great!

Bryan Daste · Post by **Bryan Daste** » 6 Apr 2008 11:11 pm

I also had a Carter Starter, and the LKL wasn't "true." Doug Jones fixed me up with a little L bracket with an adjustable screw like Ed's. Worked great - stopped and stayed in tune every time! The L bracket replaces the stock knee lever stop, with the screw put in so you can adjust the point of contact. I don't have the guitar anymore, but maybe take a look at your local hardware store and see if you can find something suitable for a few bucks. It definitely improved the functionality of the LKL lever for me.

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 7 Apr 2008 10:44 am

Thanks for the ideas, an L bracket seems in order. As neat as the CS is for a starter guitar, that factory LKL stop is just a bad idea. JP

Dean Cavill · Post by **Dean Cavill** » 9 Apr 2008 9:25 am

Jim,

The problem I had was that the LKL kept bending towards me.

To resolve this completely to my satisfaction,
I used a standard solid body aluminum turnbuckle which I could easily screw both ends to the body through the eyehooks on each end.
The body length and thickness of the turnbuckle were perfect for the LKL to
"ride along on" at the contact points where, if bent fully, the LKL would scrape on the body.

Hope this helps

Ed Javner · Post by **Ed Javner** » 9 Apr 2008 2:00 pm

Wounder why they didn't spend a few extra $$ and use the same typ of knees that work the right kicks? Other then that the Starter is a great steel.

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 9 Apr 2008 2:37 pm

I put a small L bracket as a stop, used the existing stop screw to hold it in place. So far so good. For my next trick, I'm gonna shorten the throw on the LKR. JP

Randal Smith · Post by **Randal Smith** » 10 Apr 2008 9:56 am

Jim, if you figure out how to shorten the throw on that LKR, I'll . . . thank you! (I was going to say kiss you, but I don't swing that way!) The throw is too long and too stiff. I talked to Dale Hansen the other night and he wants to take a look at my Starter with the intent of maybe solving the problem.

The problem I had with the LKL is that I couldn't reach it! I sit too far to the right end of the guitar. The solution was to make a new lever and install a right angle L on it. I had one on my first steel (an Emmons).

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 10 Apr 2008 10:16 am

I had this problem too. I beleive older starters had this problem and that on newer ones this has been corrected, at least that is the impression i got from talking to the nice folks at Carter. As a complete beginner with my first guitar, fixing was not something I wanted to deal with...so my "solution" was to return the guitar to musicians friend. The peice of paper inside the box said my starter was packed in the year 2000. rough start for me.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 10 Apr 2008 5:25 pm

I had more trouble with the pedal bar bending as I depressed the pedals. Has anyone tried replacing or strengthening the pedal bar ?

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 10 Apr 2008 7:28 pm

Alan, my bar does not bend. The left knee levers are the only real problems I'm having. The tuners are pretty cheap too, but they do work, and it holds tune very well. Just a little more effort would have really helped these guitars! If the newer ones have these improvements, that would be great news for beginners. JP

Paul Redmond · Post by **Paul Redmond** » 13 Apr 2008 12:47 am

Hey, guys, just remember you didn't pay three grand for this thing!!! There are a lot of things that can be improved on the Starter, but by the time you're all done doing that, you'd have been better off buying a 'pro' model. I have done extensive mods on two Starters over the past two years and they can be made very 'job-playable' and dependable without a lot of expense. But it nonetheless is an expense. Name your poison!!! If you want a $600 guitar to play like a $2000 or $3000 guitar, you done bought the wrong guitar. In the past, you could have bought a Maverick with only one KL or its Fender counter-part. At least the Carter offers four fully-functional KL's and they are relevant KL's....ones you'll actually use in playing.
There are a bunch of things I found that can be done to the Starter to make it more user-friendly. After you pay my tab, you'd have been better off to buy a used pro model and tweak it out to your specs. Still, the Starter has opened up the world of pedal steel guitar to a market which may have not existed before its introduction. So be happy with what you have...it didn't cost you six car payments to purchase. To those of you with a cardiac condition, the Starter has undoubtedly been a blessing. The guitar can be improved upon for your benefit, but it'll cost you some bucks and the parts will have to be custom-made.
PRR

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 13 Apr 2008 6:22 am

Paul, you are correct in your observations. I bought a CS so I could have a steel at home and one at rehearsal. I have a pro Carter SD10 that I love. Shoot me an e-mail concerning your fix for the 2 left knees. JP

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 13 Apr 2008 4:03 pm

If it's the same problem I've seen on many of my student's "starters", the problem is the knee lever is stopping by hitting the top of a round-head screw on the cabinet bracket. Being round, the lever will slip off to either side of the screw, thus pulling the change too far, and also bending... the easiest fix is to replace the bracket with a slightly longer flat piece of aluminum or steel with two FLAT head screws countersunk. Then the lever will solidly stop on the flat bracket.
I agree it shouldn't have been designed like this, but then again making that many guitars available at that price point will have positive repercussions in steel land for many years!