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Topic: Popularity of early models... |
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Apr 2008 11:32 am |
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| Fender and Bigsby were NOT the only commercial pedal steel companies in the 50's (and Bigsby's output would hardly be considered "commercial" Bobbe Seymour would know more about it, but I'll hazard a guess that maybe 2 or 3 dozen Bigsbys were produced, if THAT many). The Harlin Brothers' Multi Kord predates Fender's pedal steels by about a decade, as does Gibson with their EH line. Carvin was in the game fairly early, as were a few others now long gone. |
Harlin was first (mid-to-late '30s) and had the most successful (read: "prolific") guitar until Fender came along. Harlin, while never the "best", built many thousands of pedal steels between the late '30s and the mid '60s. Gibson, starting in the late '30s, probably built a few hundred - Wright and Bigsby (starting in the late '40s), maybe fifty each (and possibly another 50 non-pedal models). Then Fender came along in the late '50s and they were the top brand for a short while. Their total output was probably around 3-4000. Carvin wasn't a big influence at all, staring in the early '60s, their total production was probably well under 100 pedal models. In the mid 60s, after Sho~Bud and then Emmons were established on the scene, the Fenders, Harlins, Gibsons, and Wrights dropped out rapidly, as did the Bigsby. By 1968 you couldn't hardly give away any of these guitars. Everyone wanted a Sho~Bud, Emmons, or ZB, and by 1966 they were about the only major players in the game. No doubt some Fender, Bigsby, Wright, Gibson, and Harlin models went to the dump because people thought they had little value.
Starting in the early '60s, there were some other players in the market, but they were mostly "garage-built" jobs, and had little influence on the market. These brands became the cheap "starter models" for some players until they could afford one of the better makes.
MSA did come along in the mid 60's, but didn't sell many until their precise-manufactured "Micro" line came out, around '72. They probably sold a couple hundred up until that time, but another 10-15,000 steels with the MSA name on them would be made in the 10 years that followed. Fender tried a resurgence in the '70s with their Sho~Bud made models, making a few thousand rodded Fender steels. But these faded as fast as the early Fenders, probably more due to their not being produced and marketed more.
IYes, in the early '70s, the market really opened up, and the many "modern" steel brands came onto the market, while a few oldies (like ZB) faded away. In the decades that followed, dozens of newer brands came in, and this time they stayed. Most all of them were very fine guitars. Nowadays, there's so many good brands out there, it's really hard to choose one! |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2008 11:43 am
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Thanks Donny for a good overview. A lot of information in a few paragraphs.
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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Danny James
From:
Summerfield Florida USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2008 12:57 pm
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Very well done Donny, you've put a lot of work into this.
I'm glad to see the Harlins get credit where credit is due.
I agree they lost their popularity as newer and better guitars were designed. There are still some around and still being played though.
As the story goes their was a controversy as to who was really the first Alvino Rey's Electro Harp by Gibson or Jay Harlin. However Jay was the first to obtain a patent on a pedal steel. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Apr 2008 7:11 pm
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Danny, I think Jay should be in the S.G,H.O.F., but few would agree. His 2-pc. finger design is being used by just about everyone, today. Actually his guitar might have been the first model with floor pedals, but the "Hawaiian Harmolin" even predates Jay's patent (except it used knee levers, and wasn't electric).
I'm looking for a Multi-Kord myself, just to noodle around with, but it must be the S8 model with 4 pedals, and they're not easy to find. |
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Paul Redmond
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2008 11:29 pm
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Donny - Fine summation!!! Zane Beck was a key builder at a point in time in steel guitar history. What I'm curious about, and I've never heard mentioned on the Forum or anywhere else, is just how many ZB's were actually built?? There seem to be a lot of them still around and many pickers are still playing them regularly after all these years. Anyone got any ideas as to how many he actually built before opting for his then-new BMI design?? As I understand it, Zane was living in Arizona and his dad was a security guard at some kind of warehouse out there. In a drug deal gone sour, Zane's dad was shot to death as the druggies involved 'wanted no witnesses'. Since Zane looked very much like his father, he feared for his life and high-tailed it back to Arkansas soon after the melee. He then came up with the then-new BMI design and the rest is history. This story was told to me by his Chicago-area dealer at the time, the late Bill Kerr. I don't know if all this is/was true, or what. He later met Faye and married her. The killing of his father for being in the wrong place at the wrong time seemed to have really turned his life upside down and supposedly threw him into a real turmoil at the time. Out of the ashes of this fiasco came the BMI according to the legendary stories about Zane. Zane was a very quiet and private man and never spoke of any negativeness in his life. But surely there must have been some very emotional havoc at the time. Tom Brumley, at some point in time, entered into the equation and ran ZB. ZB slipped from the radar screen for many years before being purchased by the late Basil Smith and his wife, Charlene, in the early 1980's. I don't remember the year, but Basil succumbed to a heart attack while driving his car and died. ZB again slipped from the radar screen and ???? that's where the story ends I guess. But there must be a lot of ZB's out there and they must have been a large 'slice of the pie chart' in number. Can anyone out there elaborate on any of this??
PRR |
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William Fraser
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2008 2:22 am Mr Beck
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Paul thanks for the history lesson ,I could read facts concerning the rise & fall of such important folks forever . His impact will always be under-appreciated, a better sounding steel is still to be created.THIS is what the Forum is about. Thanks again MORE ! Bill
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Billy Lee ,Pro-II,, Session 400,Session 500 , Supro , National, SpeedDemons,& too many Archtops & Stratotones.Lots of vintage parts for Kay ! etc. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 Apr 2008 4:41 am
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| What I'm curious about, and I've never heard mentioned on the Forum or anywhere else, is just how many ZB's were actually built?? |
It's hard to say, Paul, as steel manufacturers (even today) are very tight-lipped about production figures. Often, their total outputs are never released. I'd feel pretty safe in saying ZB probably produced somewhere between 1200 and 1500 guitars.
Though there's been an awful lot of brands to come and go over the years, the number of really "big players" in the market (those who produced more than a thousand guitars), is probably still limited to about a dozen brands, with all but three or four of those still remaining in business. |
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Paul Redmond
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2008 7:15 pm
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Also according to the late Bill Kerr, Zane was working for a 'star' in Texas at a time when he was experimenting with knee levers. He would take the guitar home with him every night, tweak it or add something or whatever, then bring it back to the gig with him the next night. He had gotten the idea from watching his wife at her sewing machine using a 'knee lever' to control the rpm of the sewing machine motor. The 'star' he was working for didn't want Zane using any of those 'new-fangled' contraptions in his band as he had heard all the horror stories about this or that breaking or coming apart in the middle of a song. He supposedly got pretty vocal with Zane over the issue and even threatened to fire him from the band if he persisted. Fortunately the bandstand they worked on was very dimly lit with a 'spot' on the 'star' and the rest of the band sort of in the shadows. Zane did in fact put a couple of knee levers on that guitar, but he didn't want the 'star' seeing them, so he spray-painted them flat black. The 'star' apparently never found out about this or ever discovered how Zane was getting the chords he was without slanting the bar as he had previously done. Maybe he didn't care...who knows??? But now you all know why all BMI guitars to this very day have black knee levers and black nylon tuning nuts on them!!!
Yes, the man was truly an amazing person. He never had a big education and was mostly self-taught at about everything he undertook. He just never gave up on an idea until he had mastered the problem. He was always building experimental guitars...remember the one in Winnie's book on which all the pulls were tuned on the top of the body instead of the endplate?? Whenever I begged Zane to tell me how he did that, he'd just look at me and smile a big old grin and would not say one word!!! I wonder what ever happened to that guitar.
I asked Bill Kerr one time just what Zane had used for the amber stain that was used on my 1978 D-11. He told me that Faye used used a highly-concentrated tea mixture and rub it into the wood grain by hand, then when dry, he would spray clear lacquer over it. I never would have guessed that in 1000 years. I know that Indians used tea to stain the splints in their baskets, but I never would have correlated the two.
I'll always miss this man. He was a great inspiration to me personally and I'll never forget the kind words he had for me when looking at my first prototype guitar in 1984. After that convention, I never saw him again as he died shortly thereafter. I can just imagine what further contributions he would have today to the world of steel guitar. He died way too young, so we'll never know.
PRR |
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Paul Redmond
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2008 7:20 pm
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Forgot to mention above that neither Bill Kerr nor I ever found out just who the 'star' was who forbade him from using those 'new-fangled' contraptions.
PRR |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 16 Apr 2008 5:55 am
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Regarding the output of Bigsby guitars, I don't have a correct figure but there's been a bunch of research... and an upcoming (and long-awaited) book... on the topic. I believe there's well over 100 documented Bigsby steels extant today. Jussi or Paul Warnik could probably add more definitive information.
Whereas Paul Bigsby never really changed his basic design of his guitar, Chuck Wright had at least 4 or more differing designs either as Wright Custom or Sierra. Early models were based on the Bigsby look, then there were Fender-influenced designs, then the Sierra came out with its own series of designs, and there were several variations of those.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 16 Apr 2008 1:28 pm
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| Regarding the output of Bigsby guitars, I don't have a correct figure but there's been a bunch of research... and an upcoming (and long-awaited) book... on the topic. I believe there's well over 100 documented Bigsby steels extant today. |
I'd almost agree Herb. But the more Bigsby photos I saw, the more seemed to be the same guitar, often with names covered, removed, and such. I'd like to think they made about a hundred, as that's what myself and a lot of other people have guessed over the years. At one time, I thought there were far more pedal models around. But lately, there's been more non-pedal examples appearing. My "guesses" of "about 100" are based on intuition, what I've seen, and guesses of others, like yourself. Until someone else comes up with something definitive, I'm settled on around 50 pedal models, and almost as many (40-50) non pedal ones. Interestingly enough, the official Paul Bigsby website... http://www.bigsbyguitars.com
puts the total number at less than half of that...
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| Unlike some guitar makers who kept track of every instrument sale, Paul Bigsby had no log book and left no records. How many instruments did Paul make? We will never know exactly. After 15 years of research, we can document only 47 steels, six standard guitars, one tenor guitar, two double neck guitars, two mandolins and six neck replacements that are still around today. |
I welcome anyone else's comments or input on the subject! My writings on this aren't to be considered definitive, but more as a guide for newcomers and those who would like to have a baseline of how this all got started. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 16 Apr 2008 4:08 pm
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| donny...were there that many fender/sho-buds out there? a friend had one for awhile (d10) it was a great playing and sounding steel! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 16 Apr 2008 5:59 pm
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| Bobbe can verify, but I believe they built about 4,000 of those ersatz Fenders at the Sho~Bud facility in only a couple of years. |
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