Volume And Tone Wiring Diagram Needed.

Rocky Hill · Post by **Rocky Hill** » 3 Apr 2008 10:32 am

Does anyone have a wiring diagram they could either post or send me via email. This is for my build, I'm going to use a E-66 pup, and would like to incorporate a volume and tone control,

Thanks

Rocky

Daryl Smetana · Post by **Daryl Smetana** » 3 Apr 2008 11:33 am

Here's the wiring recommended by Rick Aiello for the potbelly in my build project. Should work for the E-66. You can adjust the tone with different capacitor values. The capacitor is 0.047 mfd. I am experimenting with different values from the local Radio Shack.

Carvin offers a number of wiring diagrams at
http://www.carvinguitars.com/manuals/Pickup_Wiring.pdf
These may or may not be useful, but offer options. Good luck with your build project.
D

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 3 Apr 2008 11:49 am

Just an odd suggestion here,,,, I used to have an old Dano 6-string. I changed it from 2 vol/2 tone set up to just a single vol/tone deal. I used one of the extra holes for a three way switch, and put in 2 different value caps. The third position on the switch bypassed the tone pot . Just a thought!

Daryl Smetana · Post by **Daryl Smetana** » 3 Apr 2008 12:04 pm

John Billings wrote:Just a thought!

Great idea for either testing or, once defined, using several tone arrangements. I'm gonna use that suggestion - THANKS!
D

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 3 Apr 2008 12:21 pm

You're welcome Daryl! That old two pickup Dano sounded awesome, with a great many usable sounds. One, to my very great surprise, sounded like a Martin flat top! Wish I still had it. Another stoopid trick is to use a 1 meg pot for a tone control. I have an old Gibson Console Grande that a previous owner had put in a 1 meg tone pot that was switched in and out of the circuit. Seeing as you can go from full mud to full bright in about 1/3 of a turn, it made for pretty good wah sounds.

Rocky Hill · Post by **Rocky Hill** » 3 Apr 2008 12:31 pm

Suggestions on what size cap to use?

Rocky

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 3 Apr 2008 12:33 pm

I think that's gonna take some experimentation.

Rocky Hill · Post by **Rocky Hill** » 3 Apr 2008 12:40 pm

John Billings wrote:I think that's gonna take some experimentation.

My problem is I've never set up a guitar from scratch before and I'm not even sure where to start. If it makes a difference I'm building a console style non pedal steel, not a lap.

Rocky

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 3 Apr 2008 12:50 pm

Just a thought, do you REALLY need all those different tonal capabilities ?

Rocky Hill · Post by **Rocky Hill** » 3 Apr 2008 12:55 pm

Not sure if I need it or not to be honest with you. My pedal steel doesn't have them, but just about every console style non pedal I've seen does. I was just going to add it to it. Any reasons pro or con?

Rocky

Daryl Smetana · Post by **Daryl Smetana** » 3 Apr 2008 1:14 pm

Agree, let your ears decide. Experiment from 0.010 to 0.047 to 0.100 microfarad, about a $1.49 for two at Radio Shack. One of these will likely work for you. If not, go outside this range on the end that is working closer for your ears.
Cheers, D

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 3 Apr 2008 1:18 pm

Basilh, I've never had a New Yorker to examine. re:The three position tone switch? Did it just use three different capacitors? I don't believe there was a potentiometer in the tone circuit.

Steve Waltz · Post by **Steve Waltz** » 3 Apr 2008 1:20 pm

This is slightly off topic but I thought I'd ask here since we're talking about pickup wiring.

I have an old sho bud with on board volume control and a coil tap. There is a small capaciator between the coil tap switch and the volume knob. I forgot the value but it's like those silver mica ones but it's the older ceramic ones.

What is the point for it? If the value were bigger it would turn the volume into a tone control? On one neck someone did put a larger value in but it seems like it didn't work so I pulled it off and it seems to work properly without a cap in there on that neck.

Also one of the terminals of each volume pot is bent over inorder to press against the endplate. I assume that is some kind of grounding to the guitar?

Just trying to learn some new stuff.

Steve

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 3 Apr 2008 1:42 pm

Moved to Electronics from Steel Without Pedals.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 3 Apr 2008 2:48 pm

John Billings wrote:Basilh, I've never had a New Yorker to examine. re:The three position tone switch? Did it just use three different capacitors? I don't believe there was a potentiometer in the tone circuit.

That to the best of my knowledge was a pickup selector switching system

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 3 Apr 2008 2:53 pm

Ah! I hadn't considered that! Those were the guitars with the hidden pickup(s)?

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 3 Apr 2008 2:56 pm

Rocky Hill wrote:Not sure if I need it or not to be honest with you. My pedal steel doesn't have them, but just about every console style non pedal I've seen does. I was just going to add it to it. Any reasons pro or con? Rocky

Pro :- Personal taste in experimentation. And in satisfying your desire you may increase your motivation and consequently your expertise..

Con :- Stepping outside of the frame for the sake of what ?
As you said yourself, your pedal steel DIDN'T have tone or volume controls.

I believe that the largest influence on tonal factors comes from "The Hands"
Presuming that the Amplifier is correctly adjusted..

Daryl Smetana · Post by **Daryl Smetana** » 3 Apr 2008 7:35 pm

Well, sadly I agree. Technique is everthing. All else is adjustable. Oh for Tom Brumley's technique.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 4 Apr 2008 5:43 am

My take - I feel absolutely crippled without volume and tone controls on the guitar. As a 40-year guitar player, I actually USE the volume and tone controls, which are both interactive and completely different than a volume pedal and amp settings. Your hands and amp *can't* duplicate the sounds you get rolling off a tone control 25%-50% and adjusting the volume to "drive" your amp.

I have them on my Fenders and am going to add them to my GFI Ultra.

BTW, the 60's-70's-80's cap value was generally .047...meaning anything close to .05 is fine. Fender 6-strings usually come with .022's nowadays, which roll off less treble when turned "down" all the way. Personally, I like .047's, .068's or even .1uf's - they give you a wider "sweep", but you have less pinpoint control...takes getting used to, but can be really useful.

Tone controls (passive - without powered circuits) are "subtractive", meaning they remove treble frequencies and don't "boost" anything. All pots and caps have slightly different effects when the controls are wide open, but not anything the normal human ear will notice.

Pot values are usually determined by the DC resistance of the pickups; 6-7k (most single coils) use 250k pots; 6-string humbuckers (8-9k) and some steels with controls generally use 500k pots; with 20k steel pickups I'd use 1 meg pots (all audio, not linear taper - and some Fenders with 6-7k pickups have either 500k or 1 meg pots). But you can mix and match - you'll get a different feel on the controls and a slower or faster adjustment; plus slightly more highs (depending on the pickups this can be a good or REALLY bad thing) with higher-impedance pots.

You can also use pots with push-pull switches on them and change to different tone caps...or, in my case, switch between pickups, since two of my Fenders have been modified for a second pickup (which REALY gives you some tonal variables to play with - much more like an electric 6-string). Then you can add a phase switch, or series/parallel switch...there's a ton of stuff you can do to massage the tone and output on a guitar, and single-pickup steels are very limited; work fine for clean country but with distortion usually sound pretty bad (to my ears) because you can't roll off any treble...usually a good idea tonally with distortion....unless you lean over and adjust your amp controls. I'd rather have the controls at my fingertips.