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Topic: New Player Dumb Question? |
Matthew Carlin
From:
Lake County, IL.
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Posted 25 Mar 2008 5:40 pm |
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Hi Folks,
I just got my first PSG an 81 MSA Universal 12... sorry if I use the wrong terms here. I'm not sure if its set up right. I'm just using pedals 1,2,3 for now, they seem to do what they are supposed to. But the knee levers i dont know?
the LKL raises 4E and 8E to F
the LRL lowers 5B to Bb
the RKL lowers the 4E and 8E to D#
the RKR Lowers the 2D# to D
I only question this because I was watching the video on Carters website and the player used the LRL to do what my RKL does?
Everything on this guitar seems to follow the basic E9/B6 universal tuning and setup, I think?
Assuming all is well is there any good learning material I can get thats goes along with this setup?
Thanks
Matt |
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Larry Jamieson
From:
Walton, NY USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2008 6:27 pm
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Hello Matt,
You've got a steel, so you can get started learning. There is no "Standard" set up for steel guitars. I use the knee levers that raise and lower the "E" strings more than my other knee levers. Where they are is not so important as knowing what they do, and how to use them.
Your best bet is to find a teacher. You can learn faster, and get your questions answered with an instructor, and he may prevent you from developing bad habits which you later have to un-learn.
And, there are no "dumb questions." Ask away, and you will find people on the Forum reading and willing to help.
Now, go practice and enjoy your new guitar.
Larry J. |
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Larry Jamieson
From:
Walton, NY USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2008 6:28 pm
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Hello Matt,
You've got a steel, so you can get started learning. There is no "Standard" set up for steel guitars. I use the knee levers that raise and lower the "E" strings more than my other knee levers. Where they are is not so important as knowing what they do, and how to use them.
Your best bet is to find a teacher. You can learn faster, and get your questions answered with an instructor, and he may prevent you from developing bad habits which you later have to un-learn.
And, there are no "dumb questions." Ask away, and you will find people on the Forum reading and willing to help.
Now, go practice and enjoy your new guitar.
Larry J. |
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Jeff Valentine
From:
Colorado Springs, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2008 7:22 pm
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Hey Matt,
Your MSA is setup very much like mine. The setup isn't really that important. Once you get used to it you'll obviously prefer that setup. There's plenty material online to get your started. There are some great DVDs out there that can really speed up the learning process. If you're not very caught up on music theory I'd certainly make that an important starting point. Understanding the relationships that exist on the steel can make it much easier to transfer ideas to other keys. Jeff Newman, Joe Wright, Herby Wallace and Tommy White are some of the great players that you can get on DVD. I certainly agree with Larry about finding a good teacher. I found that building the concept is the most important thing. Have fun.
-Jeff |
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Matthew Carlin
From:
Lake County, IL.
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Posted 25 Mar 2008 7:23 pm
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Thanks Larry
I will be looking for a teacher in the Northern Illinois/Chicago area.. asap
Matt |
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Tommy Young
From:
Ethelsville Alabama
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Posted 25 Mar 2008 8:06 pm
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Mathew glad to see you trying to learn the most challenging and beautiful sounding instrument in the world, if to start with you need somthing to get started I would suggest the Jeff Newman courses as those can really jump start you in this instrument and get you started until you can find an instructor, I do agree with all of the guy's, a hands on instructor can get you goin much faster than anything else, just be sure and check them out before giving them your hard earned money, ask others about them, go listen to him playan etc. just my personal thoughts.
GLAD TO HAVE YOU ON THE FORUM ENJOY IT MY FRIEND
TOMMY YOUNG
MAX-TONE MODIFICATIONS |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2008 8:19 pm
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Welcome Matthew,from Alabama,happy picking,DYKBC.
_________________
Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Mar 2008 5:38 am
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| As long as you have the necessary function on one of your knee levers, it doesn't make a lot of difference as to which lever they are on. Having said that, you will find that it is better to lower the E's on your right leg when playing a Universal tuning. |
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John Roche
From:
England
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Posted 26 Mar 2008 6:01 am
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| the RKL lowers the 4E and 8E to D# is used to get the Bb, if it was on the left you won't be able to use the Bb pedals....JR |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 26 Mar 2008 6:41 am
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| John Fabian wrote: |
| you will find that it is better to lower the E's on your right leg when playing a Universal tuning. |
With all due respect to my friend John, who not only builds a fine guitar but plays a lot better than most people realize, I lower the E's on my left leg. But he is right in that it really doesn't make much difference. It's a matter of personal preference more than anything else.
As you progress, you'll probably want to experiment with different pedal and knee lever setups. You may decide that you like your knee levers set up the way they are, or you may choose something different. But there is no right or wrong in this. Set the knees up however you feel most comfortable.
What REALLY matters is the color of your instrument. It should be either purple or green. All the other colors don't sound as good, are have stiffer pedal action, and break more strings. 
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Bob Simons
From:
Kansas City, Mo, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2008 7:37 am
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With all due respect, purple and green guitars sound flat. Black and white are the correctly tuned colors...
_________________
Zumsteel U12 8-5, MSA M3 U12 9-7, MSA SS 10-string, 1930 National Resonophonic, Telonics Combo, Webb 614e, Fender Steel King, Mesa Boogie T-Verb. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 26 Mar 2008 11:56 am
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Matthew, you have one of the two most common E9/B6 setups. Having the E-lower lever (which gives the B6 tuning mode) on the right leg (as you have) has the advantage that your left leg is free to swing over to the B6 pedals. Your right leg is already immobilized by the volume pedal, so pinning it down to hold the B6 lever is okay. It also makes transitions between the raised Es with the left leg and lowered Es with the right leg smoother. This is the classic Sho-Bud arrangement on E9, and many people prefer it on E9 as well as universal. However, many people also learn and prefer having both the E raises and lowers on the same leg. I would advise leaving yours the way it is until you develop the proficiency and experience (playing and mechanical) to try the other way later.
However, I am puzzled that you did not mention a lever to give you a middle D by either lowering string 8 or raising string 9. The D string of E9 is left out on a uni, but is intended to be replaced by a lever that gives that middle D. In B6 mode gives you a IV9 chord. It replaces pedal 6 of standard C6, and is the most used change in B6 mode. If I did not have a 5th lever, I would put that change on your LKR, and forego the 5th string Bb change. On a uni, the Bb change is best on LKV. It is not as standard as the other changes you have and the middle D lever, and it can be added later.
Jeff Newman and Joe Wright have 12-string uni instruction material. However, you can also use any E9 and C6 instruction material. Your strings 1-8 are identical to 10-string E9. And the differences on the lower strings are minor. With a little study you will can easily adapt E9 material to your uni. Likewise, in B6 mode your strings 12 up through 4 are identical to standard C6 strings 10 through 2 (but down a half-step in pitch), so you can also adapt C6 material for your use.
Good luck.  |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2008 12:21 pm
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Seems as though Matthew's guitar may in fact be set up as an Extended E9th, rather than Uni, in which case he would have the D note on the open 9th string.
Or perhaps, being an MSA, it's set up with the tuning listed as "E9th Universal" under "Maurice Anderson" in the "Tunings" section here on the Forum ("Links" at top of page>Copedents>Universal>Reece Anderson), where the D note is on pedal 4.
Matthew, what notes are the bottom three strings tuned to? And how many pedals are there, are pedals 1,2,3 the standard E9th pedals, and what do the other pedals do? |
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Matthew Carlin
From:
Lake County, IL.
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Posted 26 Mar 2008 6:37 pm
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Thanks for the info guys... by the way the color is a two tone burst like a 50's Fender Strat. The guitar has 4 levers and 8 pedals.
I found a The Basic E9/B6 Universal Tuning chart on this site http://www.larrybell.org/id23.htm
The guitar follows the chart to the letter it raises 2D# to D
I only hooked up the first 3 pedals for now and have only really used the right knee levers.
Thanks for all the great info guys!
Anyone know where i can get a good tech in chicago, I'd like to get a good check up? |
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Bill Mayville
From:
Las Vegas Nevada * R.I.P.
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 2:35 am Standard or not.
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Matt.Welcome to the world of pedal steel.
I disagree with some about their being a standard setup or not.The setups on Bobby Lees web site will get you started in the right direction.
Sure.Lots of players have taken way to long to learn to play,partly because their setup is almost imposible to work with.
Maybe that is why Carter,Emmons ,and Zum,all have some sorta of a standard setup.After you learn,change
it if you have to.
Bill
_________________
Bill Mayville
06 Jackson Commemorative ,S 10
Black.For Sale . $18,000 Kidding |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 6:42 am
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There are 2 schools of thought about whether the E strings lower should be on the same knee as the E raises, or not.
One school says that you never use them at the same time, so it's economical to put them on the same knee. The other school sys that it's easier to transition between them smoothly and replicate the sound or the A pedal if they are on different knees. Both points of view are valid.
But with practice, one can transition smoothly between the 2 levers if they are on the same foot without allowing the unaltered E string in between the raised and lowered notes to be heard. It's difficult but not impossible. I can do it by rising my knee till it's touching the vertical.
I completely disagree that one must have the E lowers on the right foot if you play a universal. I have my E lowers on my left foot and have no problem hitting the B6 pedals while it's engaged. (I have a problem knowing what to do with the B6 pedals, but that's another story.)
Matt, In my previous post I suggested that there may come a point where you want to experiment with different setups. One of my experiments involved putting the E lowers on my right foot. And doing so did make it easier to transition between the 2 knee levers. But ultimately I decided that I preferred to have the change on my left knee.
But bear in mind that it is strictly a matter of personal preference, and there is no right or wrong.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 11:20 am
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| You're in good hands with Larry Bell. |
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Ulf Edlund
From:
Umeå, Sweden
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 11:47 am
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A two tone burst MSA!
You HAVE to post some pics of this guitar Matthew.
_________________
1983 Emmons D10 SKH, Carter SD10, Nashville 112, Session 500, ProfexII, Lapsteels, GT-Beard reso, guitars of all kinds...
http://www.myspace.com/ulfedlund |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 12:14 pm
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| Ulf Edlund wrote: |
| A two tone burst MSA! |
I believe MSA started making guitars with bursts when they introduced the Vintage XL and "The Universal" models.
If memory serves correct, Reece played a guitar with a burst in the Willie Nelson film "Honeysuckle Rose."
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Charles Pompe
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 1:24 pm New
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Welcome from another Illinois steeler. You will no doubt enjoy the great satisfaction and accompanying frustration that comes with this instrument. All that said I've never regreted taking it up. Drop a line if I can assist.
Charlie
_________________
2005 Carter D-10,2009 Rains D-10, Session 500,Nashville 400,Nashville 112,1965 Vega Scruggs 5-String Banjo, Martin D-40, Gibson J-50 |
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Ulf Edlund
From:
Umeå, Sweden
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 1:33 pm
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I think i have that movie laying around somewhere 
I remember Reece was in it.. gotta find it.
_________________
1983 Emmons D10 SKH, Carter SD10, Nashville 112, Session 500, ProfexII, Lapsteels, GT-Beard reso, guitars of all kinds...
http://www.myspace.com/ulfedlund |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Ulf Edlund
From:
Umeå, Sweden
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 1:45 pm
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Now, i think that even beats purple 
_________________
1983 Emmons D10 SKH, Carter SD10, Nashville 112, Session 500, ProfexII, Lapsteels, GT-Beard reso, guitars of all kinds...
http://www.myspace.com/ulfedlund |
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Matthew Carlin
From:
Lake County, IL.
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Posted 28 Mar 2008 5:29 am
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Glad to hear it seems to be in working order... lets just hope it stays that way when I change the strings this weekend. Any good sites or tips for tuning the pedals and levers?
It looks close to the one on that cover... but more yellow less orange. Think Buddy Holly's Strat. I'll get a pic up when my camera gets back from vacation Saturday.
Still no luck finding a shop that handles PSG's in Chicago area. I'm in St. louis 5 or 6 time a year, maybe I'll bring it down there. I plan to work on it myself as time goes on but i'd like to get one expert setup so I know where to start from? |
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John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
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