Rookie Pedal Steel player wannabe

Clayton Luckie · Post by **Clayton Luckie** » 16 Mar 2008 10:13 pm

Hey everyone

I just joined the forum, and I've really enjoyed reading it. I'm 26, I'm a 6 string player, and I'm going to begin learning the pedal steel. I say it that way because I fully expect to be learning it forever. Thats part of what excites me about it. My goal is to be a "player" by the time I'm 50, so I figure I'd better get crackin'

I have a few questions for the players here. I'm starting at the bottom, so I want to get some suggestions for music to listen to. What 5 albums must every PSG player have?

Also, I'm on the lookout for a starter guitar. I don't have the cash for a new Carter Starter (or similar $800 guitar), so do you think I could eventually find a S10 3+3 or so for around $300? I'm willing to wait patiently, and check Craigslist and the listings here, but is a deal like this just wishful thinking?

I'm excited to learn a lot from this forum, and I'll try not to ask too many annoying rookie questions

cl

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 17 Mar 2008 12:23 am

Hi Clayton, welcome .

I guess you already know that there are no Korean Imports for $199 that will look and play well over here on the Steel Guitar planet. Very unlikely to find an an S10 3+3 for $300. Possible, ? Sure, probable ? NO.

Probably the least expensive Pedal Steel would be something like a Sho Bud Maverick which sells in the $400 range, which is a 3+1.

A nice student Guitar new sells in the $750 to $1000 range and I suspect that is normal and what many new players are spending.

Keep an eye on Craigslist and the FORUM for sale section, you never know what may pop up.

good luck

t

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 17 Mar 2008 12:27 am

Welcome Clayton from Alabama,I may be wrong but you may have trouble finding a decent pedal steel that will play decent and stay in tune for price,But then again someone here may be able to help,Anyway good luck.If I can ever help you send me an e-mail.DYKBC.

Walter Stettner · Post by **Walter Stettner** » 17 Mar 2008 1:39 am

Hi Clayton,

Welcome to the Forum and this amazing group of human beings, called steel guitar players.

Just a thought: Maybe you can find a teacher in your area who agrees to let you get started on his steel until you can afford to get your own. Like Tony said, there are no cheap Korean import guitars out on the market, I would also be careful if somebody offers a used steel in this price category, usually a very low price has a specific reason, meaning there might be trouble ahead!

As for the steel albums you were asking for: This question is almost impossible to answer, it depends on your musical taste and the route you want to take, musically. Country, Rock, Jazz, Swing? Great albums are available here on the forum, b0b has something for everybody.

Drop me a line anytime if I can be of asistance for you!

Kind Regards, Walter

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 17 Mar 2008 5:41 am

Go to every place a steel guitar might show up. Second hand stores, pawn shops, auctioneers, music stores. Let them know what you're lookin' for and leave a card that says "Steel Guitar" in big letters with your phone number. Stop back every month or so to kinda remind them.
Keep browsing the "For Sale Instruments" section of this forum. I doubt you'll find a guitar there in your price range, but you'll learn a lot about guitars, their +s and -s, and their value, so that if you find something you'll know what you're lookin' at.

Mack Quinney · Post by **Mack Quinney** » 17 Mar 2008 6:28 am

Welcome to the forum Clayton!

I live just up the road from you in Jarrell. Give me a shout if you want.

As far as purchasing a guitar I would say get something with at least three pedals and four knee levers. That is the minimum IMO. I don't think you will find one as in expensive as you are hoping. If you do I would be very concerned about it and have someone check it out who knows what its all about.

If you are into classic country I would start out with some Ray Price CDs to listen too. Anything that Buddy Emmonds, or Jimmy Day have recorded on and you can't go wrong IMO. Some of the early Buck Owens is good as well. Too many to choose from!

Welcome again.

Mack

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 17 Mar 2008 7:02 am

Welcome from Oklahoma!! Everyone is right on about finding a "budget" steel. You can watch your typical sources, and maybe find a Carter Starter used for $500-$600. Or a Zum Stage One. That would give you a 3x4 setup with the least problems.

There is a shobud craze happening, and the mavericks have been bringing high dollar on ebay for the last couple of years, and you don't get much. In fact, trying to make them mechanically sound may drive you crazy with frustration. That's what you DON'T need as an entry-level student. Carter Starter or a Zum Stage One would be real good to get you off on the right foot.

Meanwhile, you might start out on a lap-steel, for the money you do have right now. You will be able to learn right hand and left hand technique now. that might fit your budget now and get you going.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 17 Mar 2008 7:03 am

Welcome, from South Texas! You really should purchase an old book written by Winnie Winston and Bill Keith.

I don't know if b0b sells it here on the Forum, but you can get it from Scotty:

CLICK HERE

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 17 Mar 2008 7:11 am

Hey Clayton,Welcome aboard.You said specificaly "pedal" steel.Here's something to consider.I have found that the easier part of playing steel is using the pedals and levers.The more difficult thing is learning good intonation,blocking,volume pedal,and using thumb and finger picks.Once you get that down,the pedals will be a snap.So what I'm suggesting is a non pedal guitar.An 8 string would be a good start,and could be close to your price range.Give that a year or so and then maybe by that time your finances will alolow the move to pedal.Anyway it's something to think about.Good luck.

PJ

Jory Simmons · Post by **Jory Simmons** » 17 Mar 2008 7:13 am

Your gonna have to spend in the $1000 area to get a steel that has at least two knee levers, and a changer that will stay in tune/ play in tune. One option is to ( if your able to) actually by a pro model Steel. A popular pro- model steel is always easy to sell here on the Forum, in the event you find Steel is not for you ( highly unlikely!!!!). There are a couple of low cost steel for sale here on the Forum Now. There are a lot of Shobud Mavericks on the internet....but with only one knee lever....you can't do much with that. Too Bad they didn't make em with at least two. You'll need to at least raise and lower both E strings to play almost any song you'll want. Anyone here will be happy to help you find a Guitar, Myself included! Welcome to the Forum! Jory

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 17 Mar 2008 7:18 am

Keep looking! Guitars turn up in places you wouldn't expect. The guitar in front was purchased years ago at a cheesy second hand store. $150! 6pedals 2 knee levers.

Mack Quinney · Post by **Mack Quinney** » 17 Mar 2008 7:56 am

Clayton,
FYI on e-bay now is a Stage One for $800 and also the book that Lee mentioned. (See link below)I'm not crazy about E-bay for instruments but some times it works out. I peronsaly like to hear them. The book is a must. This will get you started and beyond.

Mack

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stage-One-Zum-pedal ... dZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/PEDAL-STEEL-GUITAR- ... dZViewItem

Phil Halton · Post by **Phil Halton** » 17 Mar 2008 9:32 am

Hi Clayton and welcome,

I have a Carter Starter for sale. I bought it new in June 07 and played it for three months before I bought a Pro model Carter S10. So, its only got 3 months use on it. It has a little ding on the front edge of the neck which is purely cosmetic.

There is no case, and the nylon gig bag that these guitars come with is so cheap I would be embarrassed to sell it--mine ripped the first time I used it. Other than the ding and no gig bag, it is exactly as sold from the factory. It is certainly a decent enough guitar to start learning on.

The price is $550 shipped in the origional carton along with the QuickStart DVD, wrenches, and an extra set of Carter Starter strings.

Let me know if you're interested.

P.S. I forgot to mention it is a S10 with 3 pedals and 4 knees which include the E raise and lower, second string lower to D, and 5th and 10th lower to B flat.

Pat Dawson · Post by **Pat Dawson** » 17 Mar 2008 10:34 am

I would find a teacher and buy some lessons. Hopefully one that records your session so that you can review it between lessons.

I started late at 45 and I, like you, feel like I'll be be forever learning the instrument. Been 8 years now and I still feel like everyone else is better than me. Time is on your side.

I'd buy any of Jim Cohens CD's. Charlie Pride's "In Person" and Daryle Singletary's "That's Why I Sing This Way" are 2 of my favorites.

Scott Hiestand · Post by **Scott Hiestand** » 17 Mar 2008 11:42 am

Welcome Clayton

Once you start down this road there is no turning back!! And you're right....you can't learn this instrument in one lifetime. Well I won't, anyway. I wish I had started at 26!

As others have said, it's unlikely you'll find a decent used guitar, even a student model, for under $400.00. Just keep your eyes peeled here and on Craigslist. It really isn't worth going "cheap" anyway, you'll just want to upgrade all the sooner. If you start off with something good, you'll have it for years. Personally I'd go 3 + 4 to start.

As far as good steel albums....phew! So many!! What do you like? Traditional Country? "New" Country? Jazz? Alternative? Anything played by Buddy Emmons, lloyd Green, Jimmy Day, Weldon Myrick, Paul Franklin, John Hughey....well the list is way too long. One of my personal favorites: "The Real Mr. Heartache" by Johnny Paycheck featuring Lloyd Green on steel. Or anything by Buck Owens with Tom Brumley. Great, classic steel, both "cryin" and "rockin".

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 17 Mar 2008 12:52 pm

Willie Nelson's "The Troublemaker" album features some absolutely exquisite steel work by Jimmy Day.

BTW, Jimmy Day's middle name was Clayton.

Jonathan Shacklock · Post by **Jonathan Shacklock** » 17 Mar 2008 1:10 pm

Hi Clayton, and welcome.

I've been playing for almost three years and I'd say I've really got the blocking thing down and the knee/foot/hand co-ordination. That's with 15-30mins a day practice. If you stick with it, it will happen. I'm no "player" but the technical things are coming.

Consider a 70's or 80's MSA guitar if you are lucky enough to find one in your price range. They were built like tanks, are easy to adjust, parts are plentiful and many were built so they tend to be affordable.

'Sweetheart Of The Rodeo' by the Byrds is hands down the greatest album to heavily feature pedal steel (LLoyd Green and JD Maness the pickers). Buy the legacy edition, fall in love, go from there.

Clayton Luckie · Post by **Clayton Luckie** » 17 Mar 2008 2:44 pm

Thanks for all the kind words, everyone.

I'd say I'm most interested in traditional country (also known as "alt country" when young people with tattoos are playing the music), and Texas swing.

It sure is reassuring to hear those of you who started later than me. Thoughts like that can keep me going during those frustrating times at practice.

As for getting an instrument, I doubt I can make anything happen right now, as my wife and I are currently buying our first house. I'll need to let the bank account cool off a while. The good news is that my wife is an amazing woman, and supports me journeying the road of pedal steel, but in regards to buying, patience is a virtue! I think I'll keep my eye out for that impossible deal, and plan on saving up more for later on down the road. Maybe I will try to grab a non-pedal guitar for the first while.

Thanks again. I appreciate all of the help.

cl

Gregg Thacker · Post by **Gregg Thacker** » 17 Mar 2008 7:42 pm

Welcome aboard Clayton. The guys have given you some excellant advice and if you don't mind, I would like to give you some thing else to think over. Starting out as you are, you really want to start out with a Guitar that has at least 3 pedals and 4 knee levers. Anything less than that, you wont really be satisfied with and will want to upgrade at your earliest convenience. So it makes sence to save your pennies and get a Guitar that you will really be happy with the first time around. Also I might suggest that you check out Jeff Newman's website ([url] www.jeffran.com [url]. It has loads of course material that you could ever want. Another site is Joe Wright's website (Not sure of the URL). There is also a Tablature website listed in the Links section of the Forum here. Check it out. We are here to help you reach your goals.

Gregg

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 18 Mar 2008 6:28 am

Clayton, I came from 6 string to steel as well. The thing that helped me most in the beginning was going to steelguitar.com and then click on the beginners tab. Go to where it says "demystifying the pedal steel" for 6 string players. J. Fabian does a really good job of showing you how quick and easy you can be playing chords on steel guitar. Secondly, if you are tight on cash, you can always get a carter starter from musicians friend and pay it out on time payments. I did that, I wouldnt do it again, but it is one option to get you into a 3X4 guitar....James

David LeBlanc · Post by **David LeBlanc** » 18 Mar 2008 8:41 am

Hey Clayton,I`m Dave and I`m a steelaholic.

Pedal steel is the best instrument and this is the best web site ever. If youre looking for some good country music and great steel try "Daryle Singletary`s THAT`S WHY I SING THIS WAY or STAIGHT FROM THE HEART".The steel player is "MIKE JOHNSON", a fellow forum member,and his playing is the best. Good luck on youre search for a good steel.A little advice:"Don`t go to cheap".In a mater of months you`ll be hooked and looking to up grade youre "cheap" steel.I`m on my third,a MSA classic and I`m very happy with it.Althought someday I`ll get a more modern one.Just don`t tell my wife that.

Clayton Luckie · Post by **Clayton Luckie** » 19 Mar 2008 11:02 am

James Sission wrote:Clayton, I came from 6 string to steel as well. The thing that helped me most in the beginning was going to steelguitar.com and then click on the beginners tab. Go to where it says "demystifying the pedal steel" for 6 string players. J. Fabian does a really good job of showing you how quick and easy you can be playing chords on steel guitar. Secondly, if you are tight on cash, you can always get a carter starter from musicians friend and pay it out on time payments. I did that, I wouldnt do it again, but it is one option to get you into a 3X4 guitar....James

Thanks James. I can't seem to find the link about "demystifying the pedal steel". Google didn't show anything on a quick search either. Any help on finding that article?

I don't like to use credit for things, so I'll probably try to save up for a while.

cl

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 19 Mar 2008 11:14 am

Here ya go, Clayton:

CLICK HERE

Clayton Luckie · Post by **Clayton Luckie** » 20 Mar 2008 12:18 pm

Thanks, Lee!

cl

Joe Yednasty · Post by **Joe Yednasty** » 24 Mar 2008 8:48 pm

Clayton, glad to hear there's another young steeler in the world. I'm 23 and started about four years ago. I had listened to Ralph Mooney way too much and just had to try it for myself. I bought an Emmons S-10 in New York City for over $1,000 with no guarantee that I'd ever be able to play it but gave it a shot because I can play the 6 string by ear. Luckily I was able to develop as a steel guitar player in the same way, playing by ear. Now with just four years under my belt I can play as much as I like. Don't get me wrong, I won't be on any Alan Jackson albums but I can definitly hang with most amateurs.

This is the album that sold me on steel guitar:
Waylon Jennings - Waylon Live: The Expanded Edition
Steel Player - Ralph Mooney

Anytime you listen to guys like Ralph Mooney, Tom Brumley, Paul Franklin, Buddy Emmons, and Lloyd Green you're gonna hear some great stuff. Don't ever be discouraged, these are some of the best musicians in the world playing a complicated instrument, just enjoy listening and be patient with the learning process. GOOD LUCK !

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