Steel Guitar Dying Out

[Roger Shackelton]

Another fact that no one has mentioned, is that all or most steel guitar manufacturers have a backlog of orders for new steel guitars. I have heard 6 months to more than 1 year. ??


Roger

[Jim Sliff]

I look at convention pics and can see the age situation.

There is, as I've said before, quite a bit of interest on the part of players in their 20's...but not as a country instrument, and unfortunately it's pretty much pigeonholed. Even with some cool rock out there and Mike Perlowin's experimental stuff, the instrument still hasa country image. Younger players are smart, for the most part....a lot of theory work, and some monster 6-string chops. They see the potential and love playing around with steels....but when they try to fond teachers or books, they hit a brick wall....or maybe better described as a barn wall.

A basic, decent steel costs the same as a decent amp in the 6-string world. And most younger guitar players outside the country world already have amps suitable for what *they* would play...so cost isn't an obstacle (a GFI through a cranked up Soldano is a wonderful thing to hear....for the younger or more open-minded crowd...).

If there were books, teachers, videos that taught the instrument more "generically" or even leaned towards "outside the box" thinking the younger crowd would e drawn in. But as long as players try to keep steel "country", get offended at "that noise they play" and remain in a provincial world the market will shrink.

Country has less steel than ever before - so if you all want to see it grow, you better open up a little bit to other types of music.

[John Coffman]

I'm 44 and been playing for 3 years my son Mike is 23 and Dallas show make one year for him. I agree that lots of the our steeling pioneers have passed but not forgotten. Music industry is cyclic just like the stock market both will return. Our music will touch new fans and grow strong. We must be able and will to adapt to new ideas and musical styles. I am not saying we have to play rap or hip hop just broaden our scopes.

[Ronnie Boettcher]

I have to add my 2 cents worth. Look at the opry. They have very few entertainers that use a steel in the band. The songs are geared to noise, scuzzy appearance, and trying to call it country music, when all it is, is rock, rap, and see who can out sleeze dress the next one. When the song came out "Murder on Music Row", they said it all. We have one country radio station in Cleveland, Ohio, and they refused to play that song, and let the public hear the truth. And it was said before, that most club groups do not use a steel. Just electric guitar, bass, rhythem guitar, and maybe drums. Pedal steel, and fiddle, are almost extinct here. Last saturday on the televised opry, I was delighted to see a steel play for a few songs. but the majority did not use a steel. It's sad. Y'all keep the steels playing, and I do my part too. (GOOD OLE COUNTRY MUSIC)

[Doug Beaumier]

...it's not like you can go to Guitar Center and buy a starter set and try it out.

Actually, Guitar Center Does carry the Carter Starter. Your point is well taken though. PSGs are rare and intimidating to most people, and the cost is prohibitive for most young people.

[Robert Harper]

I have noticed this at Blue Grass Events also and even at the Ham Radio club. I really don't know if it means that the steel is dying or blue grass is dying or young folks don't want to be around us old folks. I suspect this is a dying instrument and Blue grass also

[Dave Mudgett]

I do not think steel is dying at all among younger players. In this large university town in the center of rural Pennsylvania in the last year, two very good younger guitar players are starting to learn PSG, one on a steel I sold to him, and one on a steel on loan from me. One of our best guitar slingers plays lap steel pretty regularly now. There's another younger fellow learning that I don't know as well. At many gigs I play, someone comes up and asks me seriously about getting started.

Some of these guys are interested in country and country rock, some are interested in blues, some in rock - but they are all interested in learning steel in one form or another.

There is a big world outside of the steel guitar conventions. These guys I know want to learn for the purpose of taking it out on a gig. As much as I want to take in the steel guitar conventions, I've honestly been too busy to do it - between work, research, and gigs, I'm pretty much consumed. I imagine that when I retire, I'll be able to do this. I suspect that may be yet another reason for the age bias at the shows.

Bluegrass dying? Not a chance. I know a bunch of young bluegrass players around here. There are several jam sessions, and a couple of bands have steady weekly gigs right in downtown - attended heavily by college students. Bluegrass is doing better here now than in the entire 20 years I've been here, and I think this is pretty common. There are a bunch of good bluegrass festivals in PA - of course the big ones in Gettysburg, but also local and regional ones.

[Jonathan Cullifer]

I have been playing for over ten years and have been active on the Forum for nearly that long. I know several good steel players my age or younger in and around Nashville; the don't go to shows, but they are good players. I've seen this discussion come up many times and I think the steel guitar is in good hands for the future.

[John Steele]

I can only comment on what I've seen while out on the scene, but I certainly don't think there are fewer younger players.
There are, however fewer younger players who cut their teeth listening to Ray Price and Buck Owens, and sometimes I think that's what upsets some people here.
On my gig last night, I couldn't get out of the club for a smoke during breaks, because there was always some young person standing in front of my steel before I even stood up, peppering me with questions about it. The first one was a chick with tattoes all over her forearms and a bone in her nose I thought that was kinda cool. Call me a stereotyper, but I'll bet she'd probably dig Robert Randolph alot more than Jerry Byrd.
By the way, I always try to answer questions honestly. I didn't tell her it was a cheese slicer or a knitting machine, so I could laugh about it later.
The younger musicians I play with (and some older ones too) almost universally respect the instrument, and look at it with almost a sense of awe... and look at the player as if they were some sort of voodoo conjurer.
Maybe the people who think it's dying aren't looking in the right places for assurance... or aren't looking at all.
If you need assurance, that is. Myself, I don't really care if someone else doesn't like what I like. Nor do I care if someone enjoys something I don't. I think a little more of that attitude wouldn't hurt either.

-John

[Doug Beaumier]

I have noticed a resurgence of interest in Lap Steel in the past couple of years. I have five lap steel students now. Two of them own pedal steels, but they prefer the lap steels. Four of them are interested in playing Blues, Americana, Folk, New Age... Not classic country. I think it's All good. I'm beginning to think that the future of steel may be non-pedal. People can relate to it more easily than pedal steel.

The younger musicians I play with (and some older ones too) almost universally respect the instrument, and look at it with almost a sense of awe... and look at the player as if they were some sort of voodoo conjurer.

Yes, I have experienced that many times... the mystique surrounding the pedal steel guitar! This mystery does not surround the lap steel however. Other musicians and the audience can relate to lap steel, and that’s one reason I think non-pedal steel will be around for years to come… and may even outlive the pedal steel!

[Mike Perlowin]

Younger players .. see the potential and love playing around with steels....but when they try to fond teachers or books, they hit a brick wall....or maybe better described as a barn wall.

The way I see it, classical musicians have to learn and practice scales for hours on end. Playing in country bar bands is the equivalent of that, except that we get paid for what amounts to practicing for 4 hours a night.

Jim, since you've not done this, let me tell you that that many of these bands don't play a lot of new material. There's a certain bar band repertoire that everybody knows. Songs like Good Hearted Woman and Help Me Make It Through The Night.

When I was gigging, I viewed these songs a chord progressions that I practice playing over, and in the process I refined my technique and learned new chord positions and melodic patterns.

Plus, I learned about things like stage presence, how to gauge my volume in relation to the other band members, how to interact with other musicians so as complement their playing and not to step on them, and a million other things. In fact, I'd say I learned something every time I set foot on stage.

This was my education in both how to play steel, and in how to be a musician in general. The fact that I don't come from a country music background and didn't know much about it, or have the intrinsic love for the music that somebody who grew up with it does, made no difference.

For me country music was a learning tool, and the years that I spent playing it gave me the knowledge and chops to do the kinds of things I'm doing now.

Playing in country bar bands is like going to school. It doesn't matter whether you're into the music or not. It's a matter of gaining experience.

[Bill Moran]

ONE OF THESE DAYS !!!
We steel players will be camping out in the
pasture fields, picking with friends for
days and days like BANJO PLAYERS do now.

They have a name for that but it has slipped
my mind. I'm old you know !

[Stephen Gambrell]

Younger players .. see the potential and love playing around with steels....but when they try to fond teachers or books, they hit a brick wall....or maybe better described as a barn wall.

The way I see it, classical musicians have to learn and practice scales for hours on end. Playing in country bar bands is the equivalent of that, except that we get paid for what amounts to practicing for 4 hours a night.

Jim, since you've not done this, let me tell you that that many of these bands don't play a lot of new material. There's a certain bar band repertoire that everybody knows. Songs like Good Hearted Woman and Help Me Make It Through The Night.

When I was gigging, I viewed these songs a chord progressions that I practice playing over, and in the process I refined my technique and learned new chord positions and melodic patterns.

Plus, I learned about things like stage presence, how to gauge my volume in relation to the other band members, how to interact with other musicians so as complement their playing and not to step on them, and a million other things. In fact, I'd say I learned something every time I set foot on stage.

This was my education in both how to play steel, and in how to be a musician in general. The fact that I don't come from a country music background and didn't know much about it, or have the intrinsic love for the music that somebody who grew up with it does, made no difference.

For me country music was a learning tool, and the years that I spent playing it gave me the knowledge and chops to do the kinds of things I'm doing now.

Playing in country bar bands is like going to school. It doesn't matter whether you're into the music or not. It's a matter of gaining experience.

Pearl, I try---I REALLY try. But it is NOT necessary to play "Good-Hearted Woman" in a smoky honky-tonk 6 nights a week, to learn to be a steel player. And the bar bands that DO stick to the oldies repertoire you describe, wind up in low-paying critter clubs and the like. And after ALL your musical accomplishments, it took playing STEEL to teach you dynamics? You didn't learn that in school??
One thing the members of this Forum have, over a lot of the other musical forums (forii?), is that we're mostly veterans of the bar/club scene. Most of us have at LEAST 1000 gigs under our belts, playing everytrhing from jazz to (GASP!) "classic country." So what if I learned how to play country in a rock band, or jazz in a bluegrass band? I'm not gonna tell a youngster he needs to go play bars for years, in order to play steel. I would tell 'em to practice scales, learn at least a little theory, and go from there. Build 'em up, don't tear 'em down, just because your experiences are different than theirs!

[Antolina]

I too once felt the steel might be dying out ala the accordian but those feelings have changed. I recall Paul Franklin saying (in the 90s) that the steel is taking different directions. Based on sales figures and backlogs I'd say that's true. However, I'm also equally convinced that the younger players simply aren't interested in our beloved genre which probably accounts for their lack of interest in the conventions.

PF with Dire Straits proved that the steel definetely has a place in other genres as did Buddy with the Everly Brothers. I also know players that are experimenting with various tunings such as Blues and the like.

No, the steel guitar is decidedly not dying out, not by any means but it is changing directions so my advice is to hold on for the ride cuz it's gonna be a hoot

[Donny Hinson]

I don't think steels are expensive today. When I started playing (pedal) steel almost 50 years ago, you were hard pressed to find anything in a used steel for less than $300-$400. That's equivalent to far more today, and there's far more steels around. When you look at what young people generally have in disposable income, it's as least as much today as it was back then. It's a question of priorities, and if they really want a pedal steel, they'll find a way to get one. (After all, they get the Ipod, the laptop, the video console, the flat-panel TV, the cell phone, and the expensive shoes, don't they?)

As Jim said, though, learning materials and teachers are hard to come by. The way I see it, most kids would want to learn from someone close to their own age, as 20 year-olds don't relate well to 50 year olds, and that's a real problem. Shucks, if you're a kid you can go down any block, and you can find someone your age to show you some licks on straight guitar. But that old geezer down the road that plays steel and talks about that "Edmunds" guy and the war and politics and religion ain't real appealing.

[Don Brown, Sr.]

Well, my take on this is that pedal steel you might say, is still in it's infancy (young) state of what it will become. I know this sounds crazy to many, but nonetheless, I think time will prove I'm correct in saying that.

The most important thing to find out from anyone wanting to learn to play "ANY INSTRUMENT" is first, you have to get them to tell you, exactly what kind of music that they (Not Us) would really like to learn. I say that because I remember my mother wanting me to take piano lessons, at a very early age of around four. But I remember well, that the teacher had my sister (three years older than me) playing things like "Now Is The Hour" etc., and that simply wasn't anything I was interested in at all. So, that just didn't last. Had he been teaching the country type of music, I'd probably have gone on with the lessons.

Another thing I've noticed. In today's society, many of the young folks want whatever it is right now, and not later. They want to learn right now, but yet they don't want to put in the hard work and long hours, day in and day out, "that it takes" to really learn, and become efficient in his/her playing. It's therefore, they simply never become what they could have otherwise been. That's sad, but it's also the truth for many. No not everyone, but for the most part, that is the case of the younger generation today. They've grown up in a society that is quite different than when many of us grew up. Things weren't so rushed, and there wasn't any of this other stuff that takes up their time such as computer gaming, video games, and the likes.

For the ones who are going to make out in really learning, I'd say to simply let your instructor/s know exactly what type of music you love, and if that's not what you're being taught, find someone else who will. I say that because, nobody will continue on to learn anything, unless what they are learning goes side by side with what they feel is the right music for THEM to be learning. Not what the instructor feels is the RIGHT material for them. If that happens, the person simply won't have his/her heart into it and it will soon end their desire to continue.

So yes! I feel now with folks proving to people that Pedal Steel WILL DEFINITELY FIT into ANY and ALL music, that the pedal steel is still in it's very, very early stages of being accepted.

For me, it was always a deep love for country music, but, I've enjoyed playing all types along the way as well.

So No! Pedal steel, is not a dying instrument at all. But I believe had it not been for ALL of the MANY front runners who dedicated themselve to proving to folks it would fit in with any types of music, it just may have turned out that way.

My Sincere thanks goes out to each and everyone of those who've given of themselves in making that happen.

Don

[James Morehead]

My two young students(twenty two-ish) came to me to learn pedal steel. Naturally, I had them pegged for rock music( stupid me to assume). They both have a hip-hop / red dirt band appearance, so I approached them in a more rock-ish direction---my bad. They stopped me and asked if I could teach them how to make that "crying steel sound" like they hear on the old George Jones/Ray Price albums their dads love. Go figure. They are eating it up, and they both are applying it in the bands they play in, and it's doing very well for them. They are folk/red-dirt/Americana/rock type music.

Since starting on steel, one of the students was picked up by a second band, as long as he was willing to bring "that steel guitar thing" with him. So steel guitar opportunities appear in the most unexpected places, sometimes.

[Danny Hullihen]

Donny, that's all very true. However, although there may not be a whole lot of steel guitar teachers around, there is an abundance of steel guitar learning material availble from many of the artists, as well as here on the Forum. When I started playing some 30 years ago, there wasn't much of anything availble for a guy who wanted to learn the pedal steel guitar. If we think that a lot of people don't know what a pedal steel guitar is today, think about how it was back then? Times have indeed changed quite a bit in those regards. But I think you're right, if a guy truly wants to play steel guitar, they will find a way to buy one. I guess it's really a matter of them getting their priorities in order, and decide what's more. important to them.

[Eric Philippsen]

Many true and spot-on observations in this thread. Promoting steel guitar is important. I have to say I find it amazing that at virtually every break people come up and ask me about our instrument. I try to answer all their questions. It's just my little way to spread the word, so to speak. I have seen and heard players who answer people's questions with somewhat of a condescending oh-not-another-question attitude. The last time I heard a player do that I wanted to sit on his steel and let him know what real cabinet drop was.

[Bill McRoberts]

There is some hope for younger steel players if more teachers and organizations take the initiatve.

Northeast Iowa Steel Guitar Association is promoting the "Jump Start Academy".

To provide youth with a beginner Pedal Guitar along with lessons. The program has had many sucessful candidates with one evolving into working with active (national) band in his early adulthood.

Here is a link from their local newspaper from just last weekend with an article briefly describing the program.
By the way the picture with the article is my eight year old son behind my gutiar. It was his choice to pursue the steel guitar. I'll do my best for support. http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2008 ... 947685.txt

[James Morehead]

I too, believe Blue Grass has grown and florished over the years, and is here to stay. It's something you never hear on mainstream radio. So, maybe we tend to use "whats on the radio" as a measuring stick. Maybe we do this toooo much? I believe the older style country will be the same way, shifting off of mainstream radio and growing on local levels.
I see country music festivals becoming more popular. It just won't be caught up in mainstream commercialism, as it was in the past. But there will still be a future for older country. But some areas will be better than other areas. MHO

[Dave Mudgett]

They are eating it up, and they both are applying it in the bands they play in, and it's doing very well for them. They are folk/red-dirt/Americana/rock type music.

Yup, that's what I'm seeing also. In fact, that's the majority of what I play out these days.

I too, believe Blue Grass has grown and florished over the years, and is here to stay. It's something you never hear on mainstream radio. So, maybe we tend to use "whats on the radio" as a measuring stick. Maybe we do this toooo much? I believe the older style country will be the same way, shifting off of mainstream radio and growing on local levels.

I agree 100%. We focus waaaay too much on what's on mainstream radio. There's a whole 'nother world out there - I say thankfully. The suits aren't gonna win over the hearts and minds of a whole generation with American Idol and Clear Channel pap. IMHO, flame suit on.

[Barry Blackwood]

Well, if it means anything, I've never seen a pedal steel in a Guitar Center here in sunny California ....

[Tracy Sheehan]

Maybe things have changed now.I do not know as i no longer work the road.It used to depend on what part of the country you were working in.For instanse.Not that long ago when i played in these states up north,the Nw,east coast,ect,very few people knew who Ray Price,Bob Wills and most Nashville artists were.Even very few of the locals in Nashville could tell you where the Opry was held.
The locals did not care for country music.
I played all over Wa.and Ore.up into the late 70s.I used a fuzz and Leslie.Any thing to keep it from sounding like a steel.Played what was called top 40 and rock back then.I have never been a name dropper but when i was playing for Wynn Stewart and we played in a nice place down town,San Francisco and and the local jazz musicans would come in on their breaks and make fun of us.The largest crowd we ever had was about six people on a Sat night.Wynn would tell the few thanks for coming out.Better crowd than the last place we worked..(The club owner was an oil man and used the place as a tax write off).He tolf me he liked country music and if the place ever started making money he would sell it).
When i go into a store now to get violin rosin,ect there as i no longer own a steel for the first time in over 50 years there are usually several kids playing on guitars,drums,ect.No steel in sight.Just the way it is.
Look what gets on american idol.

[Jim Sliff]

What Steve Gambrell said.

And Mike my friend, you are neglecting the fact that there are not that many country bands...or gigs...and that "country" nowadays doesn't use steel all that much.

If you would try to understand my point - players do not need to play music the instrument was originally used for as a training ground (sure, it might be beneficial to some, but the opportunities are vanishing very quickly) - the instrument needs to be used for different things, and current players need to embrace that rather than insult it or insist a player must "pay one's dues" by playing music that just isn't around much any longer. THAT will "grow" the pedal steel market (or "world") - and sticking to one's guns and insisting that the same old moldy songs are "real" steel music and MUST be learned and played (either from a standpoint of integrity or as a "learning experience") is nothing but pure stagnation.

Actually, Guitar Center Does carry the Carter Starter.

As Barry said, not in southern California. I've been in just about every store they have (I have not visited the San Diego locations in a few years) either shopping or as part of the "Guitarmageddon" contest (as a judge) and have NEVER seen a single pedal steel (except in the vintage room at the Hollywood location, which is a completely different operation), nor any sign that the instrument even exists. Cheapo import dobros is as close as it gets. The only stores I've seen pedal steels in are Blackie Taylor's (way off the beaten track...more a house with sales than a "store"), Jim Palenscar's (a REAL store - and nice) and Bellflower Music, which has one out-of-tune, out of adjustment Carer Starter on the floor...and no one that knows how to play it.