Do You make full use of your pedals and levers ?

Billy Murdoch · Post by **Billy Murdoch** » 20 Feb 2008 1:38 am

How many players use all their pedals and levers ?
I know that there are many players who do not use the third pedal often enough,some do not use it at all.
I have an SD 10 with 4 pedals and 5 knees,when I am gigging I most often use 2 pedals and 4 knee levers.I have never used the vertical knee lever and never used the Franklin pedal.the third pedal gets used sparingly.
I guess I need to have some regimented practise using the changes.
The C6 arm rest on my other guitar is a whole new story.
Best regards
Billy

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 20 Feb 2008 4:00 am

Billy, how would I know if I'm making "full use" of them? If I could ascertain that, then I would know everything possible on steel guitar; there would be no more for me to learn. I doubt even Buddy or Lloyd or anyone else would ever think they have reached that point.

That's a most difficult and deep question you've asked, to be sure.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 20 Feb 2008 4:13 am

I use all the pedals and knee levers on my guitar at some point. Whether it's "full use" is not important. Just the fact that I use everything I have available on my guitar is really the issue.

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 20 Feb 2008 4:29 am

If you watch players closely 90 percent of all they do is done on two pedals a/b and two levers e/f. Jeff Newman used to have a great little course called - TWO PEDAL AND TWO KNEE LEVER COURSE. I use pedals a/b/c levers e/f and sometimes the vertical lever. However, if I only had 2/2 I could still find what I need.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 20 Feb 2008 4:34 am

True, perhaps 90% of what we play may be in a very familiar zone or two, but it's that other 10% that is the defining moment.

Know your Instrument, know what it does, apply what you know.

Violin players all have the same 4 strings.

It's hard to add a Franklin Pedal phrase at the right moment in a song if you don't have this change on your Steel. But if you do, even if it's only ONE time over the 3 or 4 minutes of the tune , it may just be the defining moment of YOUR performance.

Tamara James · Post by **Tamara James** » 20 Feb 2008 5:00 am

tbhenry wrote:If you watch players closely 90 percent of all they do is done on two pedals a/b and two levers e/f. Jeff Newman used to have a great little course called - TWO PEDAL AND TWO KNEE LEVER COURSE. I use pedals a/b/c levers e/f and sometimes the vertical lever. However, if I only had 2/2 I could still find what I need.

This is true. You can still find what you need. I have a Fender student model guitar. My teacher has all the pedals and levers ya could want. We are in the "he plays, I follow" mode of learning. Last night we got to the last phrase/intro and it was like..."8a&b rock to the ...." so he had to rethink because I don't have that pedal, what ever it was. Of course he found an alternative, but the tone quailty was not the same. When I heard the difference, I wanted a new guitar right then. The point being..yea, you can find it. BUT it's the difference of arriving at the Prom in a beat-up pickup truck and a long black limo....both will get ya there...it's a matter of style....(just my 2 cents..if ya know what I mean..)

Billy Murdoch · Post by **Billy Murdoch** » 20 Feb 2008 5:02 am

Mike,
Sorry for the misleading title,I suppose I lost it in translation

I probably should have said "Do You use the Changes You have"
I certainly do not.
Perhaps I need a bit more practise in using them.
Best regards
Billy

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 20 Feb 2008 5:35 am

This is a great discussion but don't loose sight that
"this is all I will ever need" is not part of the equation. It may be all you are experienced in today but there is still tomorrow.

A quality Musician is not the one who knows the most licks, but the one who can color the music with a different feel or approach.

A guitar player adding a 13th chord in a Blues phrase will stand out next to the one who only plays a dominant 7th. But ya gotta know the 13th chord to do it and when to apply it.

No different than the extra few mechanical things (pulls or for some, PUSHES) )we have on our Instruments, grow into them , even if it is one small phrase at a time.

Billy Murdoch · Post by **Billy Murdoch** » 20 Feb 2008 6:14 am

Tony,
Your advice is excellent.
Thank You.
Billy

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 20 Feb 2008 6:17 am

I've got 4 pedals and 5 knees and wish I had one more knee lever.

I play primarily top 40 along with some traditional and during the night everything gets a workout.

John McGlothlin · Post by **John McGlothlin** » 20 Feb 2008 6:57 am

I have 3 pedals and 4 levers on my E9th neck and I have found use for them all sometime or another. My most important lever of all is the one that drops my D# a half tone and then down to a C# because right there is the heart of the steel guitar sound but thats just my opinion. I discoverd the G knee lever just fiddling around with the song called Somewhere Over The Rainbow in the chourse of the song...With the A and B pedals down I slide back one fret and raise the high F# string up a note with the G lever. My theory is this...I'd rather have the levers and not need them than to need them and not have them.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 20 Feb 2008 8:49 am

I have played the same E9th tuning with 3 pedals and 7 knee levers since 1984. I use every change on every pedal and lever at least occasionally, and about a year ago I added a fourth pedal, which I am gradually integrating into my playing.

But I also have a couple of steels that have only 3 pedals and 4 knee levers, and I really enjoy alternating between playing those and playing my "fully loaded" ones. I find doing this sharpens my thinking on both--of course, finding ways to play stuff without the added changes, but also re-appreciating the added potentials they provide when I do have them.

Whip Lashaway · Post by **Whip Lashaway** » 20 Feb 2008 10:50 am

I have 8 pedals and 8 levers. I use them as I need them. It's like a toolbag. Not every job requires every tool. You use the tools you need to finish the job correctly. Occasionally the toolbag gets cleaned out and some tools get replaced with different ones. The toolbag is only so big and can only carry so many tools. We'd like to have the whole garage with us but have to decide which tools we absolutely need and which ones we can survive without. Just my 2 cents

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 20 Feb 2008 11:23 am

I do use the third pedal once in awhile,But 99 percent of my playing is pedals 1 and 2 and the 2 levers that raise and lowers my E's,When I was trying to learn to play[still trying]I found by using the a and b pedals,with the two E levers,I could play Major,Major 6th,9ths,7ths,minors,Dim,aug,chords,no better than I play this keeps me busy.DYKBC.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 20 Feb 2008 11:55 am

I was once talked into getting a second LKL raising my 1st and 2nd strings but, for all the use it's had since I got it, I may as well take it off - especially now I've added the 'Isaacs' change on my pedal 4, which enables me to get that 'major seventh' on strings 6,5,4 and 3.

I do need all the others, though - Es to F, Es to D#, Bs to Bb, and the 2nd and 9th string lower. They get used on every gig. So does the 'third' pedal (4+5 raise). The new 'Isaacs' pull is slowly getting assimilated into my playing, but I already know it's a 'keeper'! My least-used is my 6th string raise (G# to A# - LKV) but I like it in principal for an easy '6' chord with pedals down.

RR

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 20 Feb 2008 11:57 am

Billy here's something for your Dallas shopping list - Paul Franklin has a couple of courses available for using the PF pedal, and also the 1st,2nd and 7th string raises which you will find very enlightening! Or I could show you a couple of ideas over a beer !!!

Brett Day · Post by **Brett Day** » 20 Feb 2008 1:00 pm

I've got eight pedals and five knees on my GFI and I mainly use my A and B pedals. I don't really use the knee levers alot, but I mainly stay on the A and B pedals.

Brett

Billy Murdoch · Post by **Billy Murdoch** » 20 Feb 2008 1:05 pm

Pady,
Thanks for the offer.
Who is buying the beer?
Billy

Jonathan Cullifer · Post by **Jonathan Cullifer** » 20 Feb 2008 1:12 pm

I use them all...frequently. I always enjoy finding new ways to use the changes I have, and I increasingly use nonstandard ones more frequently.

Ronnie Crecelius · Post by **Ronnie Crecelius** » 20 Feb 2008 1:38 pm

Great info...I'd recently asked which KL was the least commonly used and this discussion has been helpful.

Frederic Mabrut · Post by **Frederic Mabrut** » 20 Feb 2008 2:18 pm

I've played many years with a PSG with 3 pedals and only one knee lever. Now I play with D10 8x4 and 80% of my playing on the E9 is with A&B and the E to Eb and E to F knee levers. On the C6, the only thing I never use is the 4th pedal.
What is fun is searching for alternative moves that cannot be obtained by the action on a pedal or a knee lever you don't have on your own steel.Over the years I begin to fimly think that doing this way you tend to progress and develop you own style.

Ricky Newman · Post by **Ricky Newman** » 20 Feb 2008 2:27 pm

Hi everyone,

Bit of background:
I started on a Thompson Little Buddy. It sucked. I bought an MSA D-10 Classic 8&3 that was WAY over my head. I tried not to get intimidated, but even with 3&3 on E9th, I wasn't hopeful that I would EVER figure the thing out.

The big breakthrough for me came when I put a lap steel into e7th tuning and played it (months) until I was dying to be able to change pitches on individual strings. I wrote out a fantasy 6 string copedent, compared it to the E9th on my MSA and found a lot in common. Building up to all of the changes on my MSA one by one became a pleasure, rather than a chore. I've added a forth knee now and want more, more, more changes.

I'm still no good, but the difference between reaching for a pedal because I'm supposed to vs. really wanting to feel that string pulling under the bar because it'll give me the pitch I want is enormous.

Basically, like everyone else has said here: the options you have, and whether you use them, are a lot less important that how and why you use them.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 20 Feb 2008 8:08 pm

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 21 Feb 2008 7:12 am

RKR and the volume pedal are in constant conflict. They just don't get along. One of them wins, the other loses. I can never hear the RKR string change 'cause everything gets quiet...

Curtis Nicely · Post by **Curtis Nicely** » 21 Feb 2008 11:09 am

Ray Minich wrote:RKR and the volume pedal are in constant conflict. They just don't get along. One of them wins, the other loses. I can never hear the RKR string change 'cause everything gets quiet...

Funny, the opposite happens to me! I get louder w/ the rkr engaged!