chords vs single note picking

[Carroll Hale]

as a relatively new player....dobro/lap steel....I have wondered about whether I should learn to play chords to accompany or to learn more single note or double string picking to play along with a song...
it seems ok to just play some type of pattern along with a vocalist and then play single/double note at other times...on lapsteel (C6)..does playing chords seem a logical way to play along and learn more about picking and walkup..walkdown....(this may not be the correct terminology..)

some help from the pros out there would be helpful..
been playing guitar for 50 yrs...so findning the key and playing correct chords is not a problem....just need suggestions as to what/when to play..

any help on some practice exercises to improve speed picking also needed....have flat picked for years and some finger pickin.....gettng used to using thumb/finger picks has been some trouble..

thanks in advance for any help..
I have looked at some of the instruction stuff on SGF, but there are so many.....I need to eliminate a lot and get what some of yuou have used and would recommend....

thanks again..
ch

[Jim Cohen]

Carroll,

You ask an important question. The best thing may be to listen closely to artists and steel players you admire and see when they play chords and when they play lines. I think, in general, you'll probably find that, more often than not, there's a chord 'pad' behind the vocal lines and any single string or double-stop lines tend to be used as fills between the vocal lines, ending up on another chord just as (or perhaps a little before) the singer comes back in.

The main idea is to not detract from the singer's lines, and also to keep things interesting when they're not singing.

Hope this helps.
Jimbeaux

[Edward Meisse]

I would say the same thing as Mr. Cohen. But I would add that you don't need to limit your listening to steel players. Standard guitar players and keyboardists can give you alot of ideas as well. In fact, in one larger jam I found myself playing exactly the same background line as the keyboardist for several measures. And your own experience on standard guitar should come in handy as well. Once you get the new tuning under control that last part should come with a fair amount of ease. So I would say that starting out with ONE tuning and getting to know it well is really THE KEY to being able to improvise background pads and fills.

[Jerry Hayes]

Caroll, as a long time guitarist myself I don't think I'd go the C6th route if I were you! It's probably one of the most common lapsteel tunings but doesn't relate to guitar as much as other tunings would. I think some sort of an E tuning would be more familiar to you for finding chord positions. What I use mostly on lapsteel is a G6th which is from low to high B D E G B D. What's nice is you can retune the first string up to E and the 3rd string up to G# and then you've got an E7th. Both of those tunings relate more to guitar than a C6th does. I'll probably get some flack for this but it's just my opinion.........JH in Va.

[Edward Meisse]

The only flack I would give to Jerry is that the tuning question should have come before the question at hand here. I'm assuming that for reasons of his own, Carroll has decided to use C6. There is a reason that C6 is such a popular tuning. And the G6 that Jerry has suggested, if moved up a perfect 4th would be (from lo to hi) C-E-A-C-E-G. Looks familiar, n'est pas? Chasing tunings is a trap that will delay development of real ability on the instrument. There have got to be at least a million tuning possibilities even for just the 6 string version of this instrument. If you've made a beginning with C6, I say stay with it. Experiment with other tunings as a real need arises.

[Bill Creller]

I've tried a "few" tunings since the 40s. If I had only one neck to use, C6th (C13th)would have to be the one for steel. Don't have a clue about dobro tunings. Just about any type of music can be done with C6th. The problem is, if starting with a tuning that's the easiest transition from regular guitar, it could be more difficult to start over into C6th or A6th.
Just an observation.

[George Piburn]

edit

[David Simenson]

Carroll, I think you've made a good choice with C6 tuning. I've been playing acoustic guitar all my life. I just started lap steel a couple months ago, also with C6 tuning. Previously I'd played slide 6 and 12-string guitar in open-G, D and C tunings. C6 is much better for being able to play both major and minor chords, and for being able to play chords (or 2-note intervals) in more than one place up and down the neck.

I'm also working on chords vs. fills, and I like what Jimbeaux said. I bought a couple instructional books, but I'm not using them at all. I'm using our set list as my textbook, and learning from the recordings. I'm having a blast so far, and I hope you will too.

[Les Anderson]

Carroll; I am from the old school of musicians. Learn to chord; single string then full chord. I don't agree with some steel players who feel that the more strings you can bring in on a chord sounds better or makes or means you are a better player.

Sometimes a single string chord with a short slide enhances the backup sound to the vocalist. Sometimes a full chord fits the bill better than a single string chord phrase.

Many times, a very short single string chord phrase is far better than a full bar slide using a full chord with three strings. You have to have to learn that feeling for what fits.

Hey, never forget well placed harmonics. Three or four harmonic notes in a back up roll can really add to a vocalist's emotional presentation. Harmonics adds volumes to spiritual hymns.

It's far better not to be noticed than to be sitting out there all by yourself with something that does not fit the rest of the band or the vocalist.

[Carroll Hale]

les, thanks for the suggestions....about harmonics....havent been playing long enough to learn those just yet....can do a few...(not very well) on my dobro.....

can you be more specific as to how to do harmonics on the lapsteel with C6 tuning.....
thanks,
ch

[Jim Mitchell]

I am also new at this I am trying single note songs that I tab from the sheet music I have

Sometimes I can see where two and three note chords work

But right now I am trying to develop my ear I can grap my 6 string Guitar and pick out a tune by ear because I know how the notes flow.

I am starting to get that on my 6 string Steel tuned at C6

Yes some steel guitar players play a fist full of notes and it sounds great

Like going to church and hear the organest play all chords it has it's time and place

this is what I am working on

MY SITE GO TO GUITAR PAGE

http://www.geocities.com/insp/SUPRO6420.html

What I Have in there to date

1 A White Sports Coat
2 Bad Moon Risen
3 Steel Guitar Rag
4 Blue Eyes Crying In The Rain
5 Big Iron
6 Sentimental Journey
7 Crazy By Willie Nelson

[Will Houston]

Hey Jim, glad I saw your post,I wanted to ask you something. On your tab you have notations for "double pickin" just wanted to know what you mean by that. Thanks for posting the tabs. Will

[Jim Mitchell]

Will

DOUBLE PICK IT

I put that in BLUE EYES CRYING IN THE RAIN

I may not have used the right words
But when you do that run I think you should hit each string twice

or just ADLIB what ever you fell

or you can walk it up with single notes

I am working on "YOU BELONG TO ME "
"See the Pyramids along the Nile "
should be done this weekend

[Will Houston]

OK,thanks for the tab work. Keeps me goin with stuff to work on. Will

[Les Anderson]

Carroll; harmonics can be played with any tuning. You just have to learn how to produce a harmonic note that is crystal clear. I have no idea how to explain how to produce a harmonic through text. Showing or watching someone playing harmonic scals is by far the fastest way to learn.