Williams 600 series

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 8 Feb 2008 11:59 am

Hey Erv, another advantage of the Williams changer design besides of less bending of the string at the changer is the way the strings thread through the changer hole instead of fastening to a pin...those pins do break...The Williams changer design is way ahead of the other changer designs, IMHO

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 8 Feb 2008 12:44 pm

Just to be clear, on the Williams 400 Series changer the strings do not attach to pins. They notch behind the rearward point of the changer finger. Shown in Steve Benzian's picture on page 2 of this thread:

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 9 Feb 2008 11:01 am

Hi Brint, Yeah, the Williams changers are great. I had a Sho~Bud and the changer pin broke, I replaced it with a roller pin from the local hardware store but it really scared me when it happened. With the Williams changer that fear it gone along with the 3rd string breakage problem. The changer is the heart of the Pedal Steel Guitar and the Williams changer is miles ahead in the design of the changer IMHO.

Kevin Mincke · Post by **Kevin Mincke** » 9 Feb 2008 11:23 am

Erv, I too like the simplicity vs a more busy or filled up fretboard for viewing....not only that I like the "southwestern" longhorn feel

Roger Crawford · Post by **Roger Crawford** » 9 Feb 2008 12:42 pm

I wonder if Bill has ever considered using the "W" symbol that he used to put on the front apron as a fret marker? A single red for the first marker,a single white for the second,two blue's for the third,three yellow's for the forth, and a yellow/red/white/blue for the fifth, and repeat up the fretboard. Wish I had a program to do a mock-up of it. I bet it would look pretty sharp compared to the blocks.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 9 Feb 2008 4:07 pm

I know it's purely a matter of personal preference, but I don't really care for multi-colored fretboards on any brand. I had Bill change the multi-color on my Williams to the red-and-white. But I really would prefer all white fret markers, as on six-string guitars. If guitar players don't need their frets color-coded, why should steel players?

(That said, I do have a soft spot for red hearts and diamonds on a Sho-Bud!)

Clyde Lane · Post by **Clyde Lane** » 9 Feb 2008 5:04 pm

Brint do you mean like this?

Thanks to Jeff Surratt at Sho-Pro

Jerry Gleason · Post by **Jerry Gleason** » 9 Feb 2008 5:10 pm

I can't say that I am crazy about the colored block design on the Williams, but I like multi-colored fretboard markers in general. When I'm up above the twelfth fret, It's a lot easier to tell which marker I'm looking at without having to think about it at all. I think a different part of the brain processes the information about seeing color. A different design for at least the first three markers is good also, but with colors, there's instant recognition, at least for me. One less thing to think about, even it it's only for a split-second.

It's not an issue on standard guitars, because you don't spend much time at the fifteenth fret and above, and the way the instrument is played doesn't require even looking at the fretboard, unlike steel guitar.

I've never actually owned a steel with colored fretboards, so I'm quite used to not having them, but whenever I play one with colored markers, I always find it easier to play above the twelfth fret.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 10 Feb 2008 7:18 am

Clyde,
Did Jeff come up with different scale length fret boards for you?
The regular Sho~Bud fretboards are for a 24" scale and the Williams has a 24 1/4" scale.

Mack Quinney · Post by **Mack Quinney** » 10 Feb 2008 8:44 am

Erv,
I think your last post just explained something to me. Before the Williams I was playing a ShoBud Pro I. When I got the Williams it felt strange and I couldn't seem to hit the mark and keep the intonation correct with the bar. I don't have that problem now after playing it for two months. I bet the scale length was the thing. I think I will go back to the ShoBud this week and see if I have the same problem with it now that my brain is wrapped around the Williams. Be an interesting exercise.

Or it could be that I just don't play well!

Mack

Clyde Lane · Post by **Clyde Lane** » 10 Feb 2008 9:52 am

Erv, Jeff had several different scale lengths made. These are not metal but some sort of plastic. You will also note that they are much longer than the stock fret board. I cut about 4 inch's off of these. I don't play down there but it does help with chimes. I played several outside gigs at night with the originals and the fret lines would just disappear and like Mack I had looked at a Sho-Bud fret board for 30 years.

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 10 Feb 2008 12:33 pm

Did Jeff come up with different scale length fret boards for you?
The regular Sho~Bud fretboards are for a 24" scale and the Williams has a 24 1/4" scale<<

Hey guys, now you know why I check with ERV before I make any moves...after I check with him, I do it right the first time.

KENNY KRUPNICK · Post by **KENNY KRUPNICK** » 10 Feb 2008 7:13 pm

Did Bill Rudolph change the pedal travel to a short throw?

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 10 Feb 2008 7:59 pm

Kenny, I don't know if Bill changed any thing, but every Williams I have ever seen had plenty of slots in the bellcranks to adjust travel and the knee lever stops are adjustable to suit the player.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 10 Feb 2008 8:56 pm

Jim Bob Sedgwick wrote:Kenny, I don't know if Bill changed any thing, but every Williams I have ever seen ...the knee lever stops are adjustable to suit the player.

I can't speak to more recent models, but on my 400 Series SD-10, that is not the case. I have 7 knee levers, a Crawford Cluster on the left knee and two on the right knee. On the three levers that move right (RKR and two LKRs), the lever stop is built into the lever bracket and is not adjustable. The rear LKL is against the rear apron and its stop is also not adjustable; it's a fixed stop attached directly to the rear apron, paralleling the fixed front apron stops for the pedals. Only the RKL, front LKL and the vertical have adjustable stops.

Ryan Gimpert · Post by **Ryan Gimpert** » 11 Feb 2008 10:07 pm

Would someone be so kind as to post a undercarriage shot of their Willy? I've never been able to look at one before. Thanks.

George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 12 Feb 2008 3:35 am

Ryan, I stopped by Bills the other day and he told me he is doing an upgrade on his website that will include just about anything you'd ever want to know about "Willy's", but were affraid to ask.

Keep checking it and when it's done, it'll be chuck full of information.

Geo

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 12 Feb 2008 6:56 am

Here's a look under the hood:

KENNY KRUPNICK · Post by **KENNY KRUPNICK** » 12 Feb 2008 9:33 am

Erv,Does your Williams have short pedal travel?

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 12 Feb 2008 10:29 am

Kenny,
It's all how you have your guitar set up.
I play several different brands: Sho~Bud, Emmons, Fulawka, Rains, Zumsteel and Williams.
I can set them up to play virtually the same.
Williams is no different than the rest.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 12 Feb 2008 10:36 am

Erv. Nice potential there under your guitar!!

Tell me about the right knee set up. Not so much what strings get pulled where, but just how you manipulate the 4 knee levers and the placement of them to be able to work them. Can you work them one at a time or do you have to engage one and then the one beside it?

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 12 Feb 2008 10:47 am

Bill,
On the right knee, there are separate levers for each neck. On the pictures, I have all of the levers extended but when you are playing, you need to fold up the levers for the neck you aren't playing. I have this setup on my Williams, Rains and ZumSteel.
The only builder that has this arrangement beat is Ed Fulawka, he has a crossover system on the right knee where you just pull out or push in a couple of knobs to active the appropriate levers.
You should be able to see the knobs on this picture:

admin · Post by **b0b** » 17 Feb 2008 9:17 pm

Those Fessenden fretboards do look cool. What's the scale length of a Fessy?

I have a problem with Bill's reflective fretboards when playing at night outdoors. They go black because the sky is black, and I can't see the frets.

I'd really like to have white frets.

I like the wood necks that Bill has been putting on some of his guitars recently. It's a very vintage look for such a high tech, modern instrument. Way cool, IMHO!

Barry Gaskell · Post by **Barry Gaskell** » 18 Feb 2008 3:07 am

I now a lot of players buy or rather don't buy guitars because of the fret markers and styles and colours and I don't want to hi-jack the thread, but what are the thoughts on this.
Guitar players play between the frets,Bass players play between the frets, mandolin, b**jo etc. Steel players (lap, dobro) etc play on the fret. Why not have the markers on the the fret. Is there an immutable law that says you can't do this or is it just tradition and what you learn on and except.
I know a few players who have trouble hitting fast bar work up above the twelth.
Given the varied type of board available, from simple white, to black and white, to multicolours, to narrowing designs as you get towards the twelth fret, subtle designs, gawdy multicolour and bold.
Do you think colour, shape, or maybe an overall mental picture given a particular key, pockets etc is what you hit on when moving quickly round the board ?
Is it bad form to use whatever means you can to do this. If you were listening and really enjoying a players work and then you found out he disobeyed the rules re-fretboard markings, would it diminish your enjoyment of, and respect for his playing (given that he was actually doing the business) or do you have to conform to the norm.
Is it easier to make one mental hit before striking a note, or two. Two for between the frets, or one on the frets ?.
If certain things make life easier for you, are you a lesser person for taking that route ?.
A crie de coeur ?, maybe.
Barry

George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 18 Feb 2008 4:14 am

Barry, I find that once I get up in "Hueyville" my bar covers the fret markers past the 12th fret so it's my ear that I count on. I must say I am guilty of looking at the neck markers most of the time but I count on my hearing to hit the right "spot".

Geo

The Steel Guitar Forum

Williams 600 series

Williams advantage

Williams changers

24" or 24 1/4 "

fret markers?