In Ear Monitors and Volume Pedals

Jeff Valentine · Post by **Jeff Valentine** » 6 Feb 2008 8:51 pm

The band that I play with uses in ear monitors for almost every gig that we do. The volume pedals that I've been using just don't work for in ear systems. The pots make noise and the volume fluctuations are either too sudden or just don't have a bottom end. The in ears are so sensitive that it's a bit problem. I've recently purchased a hilton pedal to try and deal with the issue. I use a Line 6 guitar pod with various nice sounding preamps. I've had trouble getting my levels above the rest of the band without actually hurting my own ears. Yes, we've tried bringing the band down and many other things to get things right. Does anyone have any experience playing with in ears and dealing with your levels as a steel player? Will the hilton pedal help? Any other thoughts on the matter would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Jeff

DALE WHITENER · Post by **DALE WHITENER** » 7 Feb 2008 4:55 am

Hey Jeff. Does the band use a monitor board with a seperate mix for each band member? If not, that could be a real problem. Each member should have his or hers own mix as everyone hears differently. My band has been using them for several years and I've never experienced the problems your having. I use a Hilton pedal I'm always up in the mix in my ears. Hope this helps.
Dale

Jeff Valentine · Post by **Jeff Valentine** » 7 Feb 2008 6:11 am

Hey Dale. Yes, we do have our own mixes. I'm not exactly sitting by the board to control mine. The bass player is the band leader and makes adjustments as I ask for them, but it's still weird. I think it might have something to do with using the in ears versus an amp. The picking style of using in ears seems to be completely different to me than using an amp. I have to pick so gently with in ears where I can dig in with an amp if I want to. I think the harsh sound that hurts my ears from time to time is my overpicking to come out over the band rather than just using the volume pedal to slightly increase the volume. Having bad volume pedals might be part of the issue too. I know in ears are the best way to go, but it's just frustrating to be dealing with all these issues while trying to just play. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

-Jeff

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 7 Feb 2008 9:13 am

I've used in-ears with my church band for the last several years, and love them. The volume pedal should not need to be any different than when playing with an amp. There are several different ways to get audio feeds to the earphones, and it sounds like that is your problem. My first setup was a Rolls PM50 personal monitor amp that worked pretty well.

CLICK HERE

This works like a "more me" system that is used in most studios. You sound guy could run you a monitor feed of the rest of the band into the MONITOR input, and you can run the output of your steel preamp into the MIC input, they run out of the MIC THRU on to the sound board. This would give you control of your monitor mix with that of the rest of the band. These units are available at most of the online music stores.

We use Aviom systems now, where every musician has a 16 channel mixer where he has total control over his monitor mix. I've used a Sure wireless in-ear system for the last few years, I occasionally play guitar, bass, or mandolin, so I needed a little more freedom. Here's a picture of my preamp rack with my in-ear, and guitar wireless systems, and my Aviom mixer.

Kyle Everson · Post by **Kyle Everson** » 7 Feb 2008 9:18 am

Jeff, I have also been experiencing this. For me, it's hard to gauge how loud my "entrance" will be without the ambience of open-air and an amp. What I ended up doing last tour was keeping my right ear in, and taking out my left so that I could feel the air move from my speakers. I'm still trying to go with both ears in, but it's been quite an adjustment. I also just bought a Hilton but haven't used it with in-ears.

BTW, one way I have been "training" my ears is by practicing with headphones (or your in-ears if you keep them around the house) plugged into the back of my Nashville 112 with the CD player running into it. This makes you feel like you're in the studio, and is a good way to adjust to the in-ears.

Let us know how it's going.

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 7 Feb 2008 10:46 am

As far as "hurting your ears," that should never happen. I use the cheapo PSM200 and that has a built in limiter so it cuts out if the level gets too loud. I would also check the gain level, eq settings, etc. on your monitor board for the steel channel.

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 7 Feb 2008 2:55 pm

I use in-ears twice a week and I like them because I can control what I hear. The most important factor is the monitor mix that you are listening to.
Find a way to get it right for you. If I am not happy with what I hear, I don't play well.

my 2c

Junior Knight · Post by **Junior Knight** » 7 Feb 2008 5:46 pm

On the road with LeAnn Rimes..we had in-ears..major brand..shure,very high dollor. My ear molds(10 years ago)..$1000. Never could get the sound *right* after I left the band.At the club where I play,everybody uses in-ears but me. Just my 1 cent.

Justin Schipper · Post by **Justin Schipper** » 7 Feb 2008 6:20 pm

If your in ear mixes are stereo, you may want to pan any guitars, bass or keys out to the sides. This will clear it up quite a bit.

Jeff Valentine · Post by **Jeff Valentine** » 7 Feb 2008 6:49 pm

Thanks to everyone for your input. I'm looking forward to my hilton pedal arriving tomorrow. It was a bit better at rehearsal today. The sound guy is having issues with excess sound coming from my volume pedal, so hopefully the hilton will help. I'm going to adjust the whole band down in my mix so that I can play over them without hurting my ears. I just have to make sure to keep them up enough to stay in tune. I'll check to if we can order one of those Aviom mixers. We have complete control over each mix, but the board isn't next to me, so I've got to ask to have things adjusted. Sometimes I think it's better just to try and get used to it. Thanks again to everyone for all the good advice.

-Jeff

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 8 Feb 2008 9:18 am

Avioms are great, but unfortunately you can't just get a mixer. You need the master unit out of the board, then from there it goes to individual mixers. Very spendy, and not cost-effective unless the whole band is willing to fork over the $600 or so for their own mixers.

Dyke Corson · Post by **Dyke Corson** » 8 Feb 2008 12:22 pm

Our band uses the Aviom and I go into the aux in with a stereo out of the PodXT. I have tried the Goodrich LDR and a Goodrich pot pedal and really don't notice much difference, so I use the pot pedal. One less thing to plug in. It's taken me a long time, but I'm getting to where I like it pretty well. We put a studio condenser on a stand in the middle of the stage for ambience, and off color comments from the singer that only the band can hear! This helped make it more "live" sounding, and more fun all at the same time.

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 8 Feb 2008 4:14 pm

Dyke, we also have ambient mic's in our church auditorium. These are used for audience sound on our live recordings, and we have them on an Aviom channel also so the musicians can adjust the amount of ambiance they want.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 9 Feb 2008 7:23 am

So you buy a whole $4000 Aviom setup to get your sound all clean and precise and controlled, then set up a bunch of ambient mikes to make it all sloppy and normal like a real band? That's almost like... using reverb, to imitate the way a room sounds. I'm not sure I'm ready fer all this pro-gress stuff....

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 9 Feb 2008 8:51 am

The main advantage of the Aviom system is the reduction in stage volume. And, each musician has control of his own monitor mix. The audience mic's just makes the in-ears sound less isolated, they don't make it sloppy. Before we started using this monitor system, the FOH system was almost useless, as there was too much volume in the stage monitors, and it was bouncing off the wall behind the stage. This gives the FOH engineer a lot more control. We have a pretty lively church, so the audience mikes makes our recordings sound much more realistic, besides allowing the musicians to hear more of what it going on.

Dyke Corson · Post by **Dyke Corson** » 10 Feb 2008 9:13 pm

Dave you control the level of the ambient mic just like everything else, you just add what you need. Darvin is right on all points. Plus we now get a GREAT monitor mix regardless of the room, sound company, It pretty much sounds the same every night...AND you can turn down (or off) anyone you don't want to listen to!

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 10 Feb 2008 10:56 pm

You should be cautious about using any in-ears and headphones to any large extent. I refuse to use them at all, unless I simply have to; my hearing loss from headphones and ear buds is not only harmful, it's a loss of quality of life from a correctable situation. Check out Pete Townsend's website about these devices before committing a large sum of money to them. It's just not worth it to me. If you make your living or just get your enjoyment from making music, your hearing is just too dear to sell so cheaply.

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 11 Feb 2008 9:48 am

In-ears can't be as bad as loud guitars and drums in your ears that you have no control over. At least with earphones you have control of your listening level, where without them you don't. I have used them for about 5 or 6 years now, and I had a hearing test a few months ago, and I have only a slight loss in the high frequencies, which according to the doctor, is normal as you get older.

Dyke Corson · Post by **Dyke Corson** » 11 Feb 2008 9:18 pm

The current band I'm with HAD a very loud stage volume. My ears would ring the next morning after every gig (mostly from being right next to the drummer) and my solo volume was painful just to cut through and hear myself. Now since we are using the in-ears I have never had a problem with my ears ringing and I'm sure it's saving what hearing I have left!!

mtulbert · Post by **mtulbert** » 12 Feb 2008 5:48 am

Also,

Many of the artists use only one ear. The absolutely worse situation that you can have. There will be a lot of football coaches hard of hearing one day from using that type of system.

Ear bud systems, if properly used and not set up to blow your head off, are safe and can be used for years without any ill effects.

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 12 Feb 2008 8:07 am

Our lead player just started using them and he had just one in and I told him the dangers and he hasn't done that since. I believe they all have built-in limiters (at least my PSM 200 does) so there's no real danger of blowing out your ears.

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 12 Feb 2008 3:34 pm

I hated them. No tone no balls. My band was using them for everything. There were no amps on stage at all. The singers love them. It kind of worked bvecause the PA was so loud it was blowing my brains out. So the ear monitors actually shielded the volume. In other clubs we are using a mix of ear monitors and amps. So the singers are happy and we are using amps as well. I was using a POD XT with the ears and it was tolerable but no tone. I would much rather use my amps to get the sweet tone I have tried a lifetime to obtain. I never felt like I was playing with the ears. I am not gonna ever do that again. My 2 cents...

Rick Hinton · Post by **Rick Hinton** » 27 Feb 2008 6:14 pm

I've been using in-ears since 1999/2000. I did this after going to the audiologist and discovering that I had a 30-40% hearing loss in my right ear from playing a small stage right beside the drum riser. So I bit the bullet and bought a wireless PSM-600 and custom buds from Futuresonics. Still use them. Every time.

If your not getting the tone that you want, it's probably not your rig, it's your monitor mix.

If you have a way to do stereo ears, do it. Pan everything away from center, except what you really want to hear. I do vocals, steel, acoustic, electric and mandolin at almost every show, all with my in-ears. Start with what you want to hear the most, then add everything else. After all, the steel is the only thing worth hearing, everything else is background noise.....right?

In most cases, you get ~29db of noise reduction from the generic ear buds, some are more than that. For me, protecting my hearing is worth more to me than just about anything. Hang in there, you will get the mix you want, it just may take more time than you want it to.

Rick

Jeff Valentine · Post by **Jeff Valentine** » 28 Feb 2008 9:47 pm

I appreciate your response. Over the last few weeks we've fixed my mix and things are way better now. I actually prefer my sound to be away from the center. It sounds to harsh to me right in the middle. Things are awesome now. It's like a CD in my ears. I like the overall volume pretty soft, so that took some work. The bass player likes his louder and was actually mixing mine for me. Now that he realized that I like mine pretty soft things are better. My hilton volume pedal helps quite a bit too. I was using a goodrich before that and our sound guy was getting all kinds of excess noice from it. Having no pots makes a huge difference. Anyway, thanks for the input.

-Jeff

Ryan Gimpert · Post by **Ryan Gimpert** » 29 Feb 2008 10:40 am

Guys, Keith Cordell speaks the truth.

You need to be extremely careful with your earphone volume levels. As a pro DJ for a few years, I did far more damage to my ears with my headphones than I ever have using loud amplifiers. I always played with one earphone on and one off, so I could cue with my left ear and listen to the house mix with the other. Since then, I have had many problems with my left ear. Not only is it annoying, it's irrepairable!

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In Ear Monitors and Volume Pedals

In Ear Monitors and Volume Pedals

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We used them in a very loud club

Thanks Rick