Carter vs Black Jack Custom

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 29 Jan 2008 10:18 am

I am in the midst of a VERY serious problem with Carter right now. I don't want to get into it here...yet. I am waiting to see how they resolve the problem. If they do the right thing and correct their problem then that will be fine and I will move on.

Terry Winter · Post by **Terry Winter** » 29 Jan 2008 10:30 am

I have to chime in on this topic. I have owned and played other steels but the Carter S-10 that I now own is by far the best in my opinion, so much so that I have a D-10 on order. Everybody will have their prefereces and there are many great looking and playing steels out there but I will defend the Carter quality and service to the bitter end. Just remember a starter steel is sold at a starter price.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 29 Jan 2008 10:33 am

Terry Winter wrote:I will defend the Carter quality and service to the bitter end. Just remember a starter steel is sold at a starter price.

My problem is not with a starter steel. It is with their top of the line model.

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 29 Jan 2008 11:12 am

Actually, we here at Carter feel it is important to know that for several days now we have been offering (what we feel is) a satisfactory solution to Mr. Hatcher's problem. The Carter in question was purchased <b>used</b> and not directly from Carter; thus we have no way of knowing the history of the steel or the true cause of Mr. Hatcher's problem. We feel confident that we can reach a positive solution for Mr. Hatcher.

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 29 Jan 2008 11:43 am

I obtained my Carter universal used in 2003. It is a 2000 BCT model which had been ordered by a man who had never played a steel before, only a Dobro. Obviously to grasp a full blown universal was too much for him, and after 3 years of it sitting in his garage unplayed, he decided to sell it and I won out on an amazing guitar. All I did was to re order another brand pick/up from Carter's as do most players who have their own choice of pick/up tones. I am a professional player (over 37 years on pedals) and will put the Carter up against any other steel out there. Via this great Forum, I have met a "seriously" great player from Mineral Wells, Texas, Mr Ted Solesky. He is another Carter man and will not play anything else. I know he won't mind me mentioning his name as we are good internet friends now. Many have heard him and taken his advice as which way to go on their next steel.

Micky Byrne United kingdom www.mickybyrne.com

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 29 Jan 2008 11:50 am

John Fabian wrote:Actually, we here at Carter feel it is important to know that for several days now we have been offering (what we feel is) a satisfactory solution to Mr. Hatcher's problem. The Carter in question was purchased <b>used</b> and not directly from Carter; thus we have no way of knowing the history of the steel or the true cause of Mr. Hatcher's problem. We feel confident that we can reach a positive solution for Mr. Hatcher.

What "We feel" and what I feel is a satisfactory solution is what I am hoping to work out with you Mr. Fabian.

There are some issues with an instrument that should transcend whether or not the instrument has changed owners. I look forward to your kind offer of calling you tomorrow and speaking to you about this. I have sent several pictures including one sent yesterday that I hope you get a chance to see.

I feel very optimistic about speaking to you and providing you with any other information I can so we can work this out.

I will be more than happy to post a reply here as to how Carter Guitars assisted me in backing up their product.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 29 Jan 2008 12:31 pm

Call me crazy but an Instrument that was purchased on the USED market has a liability back to the seller, not the manufacturer. I'm glad to see that Carter is willing to work with Bill regardless, that says plenty right there, actually, that says it all.

Andy Zahnd · Post by **Andy Zahnd** » 29 Jan 2008 12:38 pm

AMEN!

don't fight..... we're to small..... everybody has to pull on the same string.....

John Drury · Post by **John Drury** » 29 Jan 2008 12:54 pm

RC,

Sorry if I came across as "berateing" you that was not my intent.

I am just a little sensitive about the appraisal of my steel (5 cents), and an undeserved comment about the Carter organization.

"Wouldn't give a nickel for a Carter if only because of their poor reputation".
_________________

I will bet my 112 that Bud Carter has his signature on more steels (my gueuss is 15 or 20 thousand guitars over the years) the world over than any other person ever. Lets see there is MSA, MCI, EMCI, Carter, Magnum, did I miss any?

Also, John and Ann Fabian have been more than fair with me in our dealing over the years, I count them both as friends.

There is fierce brand loyalty when it comes to our instruments, I don't ever remember talking to anyone who didn't think they were playing the best axe available, or said that they only kinda liked their own brand of guitar.

That being said, sorry if I ruffled any feathers out there, you are a great bunch of people out there on this forum, and I enjoy being a part of it.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 29 Jan 2008 12:55 pm

I once offered a testimonial to a manufacturer for their website because I was very pleased with their product. They replied that since I bought it used, they didn't want my praise. I'm not sure what that says, but it turned me off the company - and that there is what you don't want happening, if you want to stay in business and retain a good reputation.

Doc Rickles · Post by **Doc Rickles** » 29 Jan 2008 12:57 pm

Bought a Carter Starter. Great Price new. Musicians Friend let me try it for thirty days. Didn't like it. Sentit back. Later bought a Magnum SD10. LOVED IT. Had a D10 Carter loved it. Had about 20 in a couple of years. Loved all of them except one, it had a little trouble, sold it to someone and they saw a problem, paid to get the problem fixed. With the help of a great person on the forum. Many ofthe manufacturers will work with you, many steelers will help you. This is a great place if you have problems. Wonderful people. All of them.Best to try before you buy. Also might buy a Blackjack. "Doc"

Ted Solesky · Post by **Ted Solesky** » 29 Jan 2008 7:33 pm

I personally know Bud and had lunch with him a few times. He says 'try them all and buy the one that suits you'. Simple as that. How many guitar mfg have you heard ssy that? I've had a Carter since 1996 and it's still pluggin away. I'll be glad to send anyone a sample of what it sounds like. Just email me and it's yours. I agree with Bud, 'they'll all good'. When it comes to pedal action, it's sure hard to beat Bud, and I've tried a thousand of them.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 29 Jan 2008 7:45 pm

One of Bud Carter's greatest innovations was the MCI. Man, do those steels ever sound great.

Casey Lowmiller · Post by **Casey Lowmiller** » 30 Jan 2008 1:57 pm

Quite frankly, in order to choose between the 2, you should try your best to give them both a test drive.

Carter's are fairly easy to come by...surely someone would let you sit down behind their Carter and try it out.

The Jackson might be harder to find since they are so new. If you were to sit behind a good Sho-Bud, you'd at least get to hear what a Blackjack will sound close to. I've heard they play real smoothe like a Mullen.

I'm sure that both a pro model Carter and a Blackjack will play very nicely...I think the biggest difference would be the inherent tone or sound of the guitars.

In my opinion, anything Chris LeDrew says sounds good & plays good is going to be great. I guess that's not really my opinion...oh well!!!

Either way, you're getting a quality steel. We have so many good options these days...it's hard to go wrong.

Casey

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 30 Jan 2008 3:38 pm

Casey, you have good words of wisdom.....except for the part about me knowing what I'm talking about!

But thanks for the vote of confidence!

Both brands have great mechanics. It's just that the Blackjack (in my opinion) is trying to appeal to the steel player who is looking for a nice blend of the old and the new. Some think the "old" or "classic" sound is in the hands. And it's true to a certain extent that you can dial in old-sounding tone with any brand, using amp settings, etc. It just jumps out at you more readily on the Jackson. I do believe the Blackjack was designed with this dynamic in mind, as opposed to a more neutral design.

Casey Lowmiller · Post by **Casey Lowmiller** » 30 Jan 2008 5:35 pm

I concur Chris. The Jacksons definitely have that classic steel sound. From everything I've heard, they sound like a better Sho-Bud. They have that old sound with modern mechanics & looks...nothing wrong with that!!!

I've always thought that Carters were kind of modern sounding. They are great for new stuff, but you can make them sound alright for the older stuff too!!!There's just something slightly missing.

Thankfully, I have a Sho-Bud & a Z.B. so I can sound terrible in an "old school" kind of way. My LaGarritt has more of a Push Pull/Modern sound... now I can sound terrible with a more modern sound. I'm all set!!!

I wouldn't mind having a Blackjack or a newer Carter, either way it'll be a great guitar that is reliable, smoothe playing & fairly easy to service. Seems like a win-win situation to me. I guess it just depends on what sound you're after as to which one is best for you.

Casey

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 30 Jan 2008 6:33 pm

Definitely, Casey. I got a lot of compliments on my tone when I played a Carter, and all my steel friends can tell you that I still talk about the tone of that black D10. Different steels do different things. If you look at the pros, you see a history of brand-hopping over the years. It seems hardly anyone's immune to looking over the fence. Having said that, it is nice to find a modern brand that suits every need, and that's how I feel about the Jackson.

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 31 Jan 2008 3:10 am

Is the BLACKJACK a beginner model or a pro model? I know the CARTER S-10 is a pro model, not sure about the BJ though. The JACKSON made guitars are nice but I've only seen a few so far on Seymour's site.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 31 Jan 2008 4:23 am

The Blackjack is a Pro model.

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 31 Jan 2008 4:29 am

I would have to agree with Chris on a few things that he has mentioned in this thread ...

1) You will rarely hear anybody say anything bad about ANY pedal steel since they DO recieve repercussions from such actions ....

2) There really are many different steels out there , and there are some good things about particualar brands, and some bad things about particular brands, then you also get a lemon from a particualar brand that sours you from buying said brand again ...

3) I agree also that if someone finds a particular steel that fits their needs , and does so with flying colors, it's good to hear about thier find ...There is nothing better than to find the steel that fits you nicely ...How many steels have I gone through and STILL have not found the PERFECT STEEL ...Maybe I never will ....I'm getting pretty close though !!

Then to put the icing on the cake you have the " It's in the hands" theory which get's thrown in there for good measure, which in my thoughts is only part of the equation ...

I will also say right here and now that ANY manufacturer that makes a pedal steel that is a student model should make that steel as good or even MORE playable than a pro model as it's a starting point for a pedal steel player ....The fact shouldn't be " Ah they won't know the difference, they're just starting out " ...The fact should be " I'll make it nicer for them so they will get better and buy more from me " kind of attitude ...It doesn't matter HOW inexpensive a model is ....The steel SHOULD work and WORK WELL ...If you don't want to charge a lot for it ,don't make it as fancy, and put less features on it .....I am not singling out ANY manufacturer here ...This goes for ALL OF THEM !!...I'm tired of hearing " Well it's only a student model, what do you expect ?" ....I expect a playable model that will work properly !!!

There are better sounding steels and worse sounding steels from the same manufacturer....That's the nature of the beast ...Sometimes you get a good one , and sometimes you get a bad one .... This is why, if possible, you should go out and try the steel that you are buying ....I've gotten good and bad steels from the same manufacturer ..This is not going to make me stop buying from them .... Good Luck to all ...Sincerely, Jim

Iain · Post by **Iain** » 31 Jan 2008 5:05 am

All I can add is that Ann Fabian was MORE than helpful to me with getting a Carter I'd bought 2nd-hand back to Scotland when I left America...and that the stel itself is a great instrument!

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 31 Jan 2008 7:48 am

James Quackenbush wrote: I will also say right here and now that ANY manufacturer that makes a pedal steel that is a student model should make that steel as good or even MORE playable than a pro model <<<>>>I expect a playable model that will work properly !!!
Sincerely, Jim

Well thats probably what we all want but are you asking a manufacturer to make a Student Guitar which is the same as a Pro Guitar but sell for the Student price ?

Count me in, I also want a Student D10 thats the same as a PRO D10 but I only wanna pay the Student D10 price.

Regarding playability, I have played many many brands of Student Guitars and for me they were all playable.The issue was more you could not grow PAST the configuration. I've had students here at the house with MSA Barons, Carter Starters, Mavericks etc, all very playable, but all limited .

I believe Carter is working towards this end with the Magnum Steels, PRO Steels with a little less flash.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 31 Jan 2008 10:39 am

I think the original poster went out & bought a banjo after all this.......

Stephen Wells · Post by **Stephen Wells** » 31 Jan 2008 12:32 pm

Mr R
I must admit, I have felt bad; as this is not what I had in mind. The fear of stepping on exposed toes is why I post so seldom.
Stephen

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 31 Jan 2008 12:43 pm

Ah, don't sweat it, Stephen! We all owe you an apology for turning it into a racket.

Any time a "Brand A" vs. "Brand B" thread pops up, you know it's going to be popcorn time for everyone.

It's just proof that all is well on the forum front. If it was any other way, I'd be nervous that something was really wrong.

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