Question for studio players ??

Bill Moran · From: Virginia, USA

I have recorded myself many times. At home in the
music room and live on the bandstand. I can have
my guitar,amp and efx. sounding good, in my opinion.
When I play the tape back my guitar sounds thin
and the efx. are not there at all. What's up ??
The background music , trax or live pickers, seem
to tape the way I hear them. Why does my steel not
tape the way I hear it live ?? Confused

_________________
Bill

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Are you using a mic, or a direct out?

David Doggett · Posted 29 Jan 2008 1:17 pm

You're probably always sitting right in front of your speaker, possibly with it pointing directly at your head. You hear the full sound from close up. And you have the volume set so you hear it over everything else. Nobody but you ever hears your steel that way. When it's recorded, you hear it the same way everyone else does.

There's a corollary to this. If they were to put you in charge of the final recording mix, you would set the level of your steel track way louder than anyone else would. You would be trying to replicate the way you always hear your steel closeup live. Anyone else would bury the steel further down in the mix, the way they always hear it. This phenomenon is not limited to steel. If you sit a guitar player, horn player, drummer or vocalist down at the mixing board, they will always mix their own track way louder than anyone else would. They are not necessarily being egotistical. They are simply trying to replicate the way they always hear the mix, with their own guitar, horn or voice up close and in their head, and everything else from some distance.

If you want to hear yourself more realistically all the time, put your speaker in the back line approximately the same distance from you as the guitar and bass speakers are. And don't tilt it or angle it directly toward yourself. Point it out at the center of the audience. This way you will set your volume to hear yourself well in the mix, and that will be approximately the way everyone else will also hear you. If your speaker is being miked, the sound engineer will set your level out front or in the recording as he sees fit, but at least your stage volume will match everyone else in the stage mix.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

David, I once spent a week at a studio in Chicago recording with my band. Paramount? I don't remember. More than 30 years ago. Most of us had to get back to Miltown to work, so we let the bass player do the final mix! One of the big mistakes of my life!

Michael Douchette · From: Gallatin, TN (deceased)

Bill, a mic "hears" an amp differently than an ear does. If you want your ear to hear it the same way, bend down and put your ear almost against the grillcloth, just off the edge of the cone where you would put the mic. If you can stand that, you're deaf to begin with! Smile

The mic will add a natural compression. That will be different to begin with. Are you adding the effects in the console, or are the effects coming out of the speaker with the steel signal? If you're adding them in the console, you may have to change a setting to hear them in the playback mode. Not knowing about engineering, I don't know what it is, but someone here will know.
_________________
Mikey D... H.S.P.
Music hath the charm to soothe a savage beast, but I'd try a 10mm first.

http://www.steelharp.com
http://www.thesessionplayers.com/douchette.html

(other things you can ask about here)
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Tim Bridges · From: Hoover, Alabama, USA

Pull the mic away from the amp. If you will allow the sound a chance to project, rather than cramming the mic up against the grill cloth, you will get a much better sound. Give 1-2 feet for starters.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Do we know that Bill is using a mic? If he's using a direct out, that could be the problem?????

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Now I am not a recording Engineer by any stretch but everything I have read states to place the mics approx. 6" or so from the speaker. I did a small studio session last week, I used my Fender Hot Rod Deville with 2-12's, it has a nice vintage Fendery' sound with the Steel, we mic'd it maybe 3 or 4 inches from the grill cloth, to my ears the recorded tracks sounded better than the LIVE room sound ! I'm not really sure what condensor mic they used but they told me if I tripped over it and broke it, I would have to give them one of my kids !

Bill Moran · From: Virginia, USA

I have thought about most everything you guys
have mentioned. I do have my amp close to me
on the floor. I use a XLR line on the bandstand
but at home I use a condenser mic out front
so I pickup the guitar and the CD jam trax.
Could be my amp is too close me on the bandstand.
My vol. might be too low on stage ?. Volumn
is probably too low in my music room also.
I'm going to try moving the amp away from me
so I can turn it up. Very Happy

The guitar player
uses 2 amps on the floor pointed at his ankles
and his rig sounds great on tape.
I will keep you posted.
_________________
Bill

Dustin Rhodes · From: Owasso OK

You might try multiple mics at different distances from the amp. Normally a good way to fatten up a sound.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

I bought a 20 mic cable and a 20 foot guitar cord, and put my amp in another room.

Jim Harper · From: Comanche, Oklahoma, USA * R.I.P.

Bill, when i was in the studio in Nashville the engineer used 2 mike,s,one about 3 ft. in front of my 112 and another about 10 ft out from the 112. I asked him about that and he said you get a fuller sound==Jim Harper

Bill A. Moore · From: Silver City, New Mexico, USA

Bill, I've worked with both country and R&R bands, and stage volume is not what the audience hears,(how else could they stand the lead guitar player). I used to always set up two mikes at the edge of the dance floor, and record the first set in a new venue, and play back the results at the first break. It is surprising how different room acoustics affect the audience sound. That obnoxious lead player is muted by the numbers of people on the floor, and the bass player needs to turn up! On larger venues we would direct in the keyboards, drum and bass mix, and mic the guitars,(including steel), with quality mics, about 3 ft. in front of the amp. A small baffle next to the mic will shield the rest of the sound from these mics, and give a cleaner signal to the board. We were always too poor to afford a sound man, but if I ever get back up on stage, I want one. The advantage of miking the floor, you also get the sound of the audience. Seems the other bar owners like that when you give them that recording for a demo,(especially if there are positive responses)

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

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