Pad or No Pad?

[Antolina]

My first MSA classic had a pad. After getting used to it I thought I'd never want to be without an SD. From there I went to a sho~bud s-10. I learned that I'd developed a lazy hands technique that did nothing for me. Just cuz Lloyd can play resting his hands doesn't mean I can... or should.

Il stay with my s-10s.

[David Doggett]

On all the D10s I have had, except for the LKL, all the levers were between the two necks, right behind the front neck, exactly as they are on a single-neck. On my single-necks, LKL works fine lined up with all the other levers. So I see this issue as just personal preference and what you are use to.

As for needing a place to rest your arms, I just don't see how all those D10 C6 players get by without a triple-wide with a pad in front of their back neck.

Unless you have really long feet, so the levers immediately behind the front neck are too near the tip of your knees, I don't understand the body-position argument. I sit the same distance behind the strings on a single-neck body as I would on a double-wide single-neck. The only difference is that on the single-neck there is not extra body and pad getting in the way of my arms and blocking my view of the pedals. Not that I watch the pedals when I play, but being able to occassionaly glance down and easily see the pedals of my uni is sometimes helpful.

Who knows, maybe if I only played at home, and never had to move the thing up and down stairs, and never had to squeeze onto a small stage with the guitar player's butt in my face, a double-wide with a loafer wouldn't seem like such an inconvenience. But with no clear advantage for me, the size and weight thing easily tip my preference to a single-neck.

[Russ Tkac]

I have a D11/10 and play an S-10 also. I like the S-10 fine and see no problem going between them. The S-10 ia a lot lighter.

[Calvin Walley]

i like the little bit of extra weight of the SD-10
its really very little
plus i also like the wider stance of it, it makes it a lot more stable when playing

what it comes down to is what the player likes or dislikes
a lot of things on the steel seem to boil down to personnel likes & dislikes

[Terry Winter]

I personally like the single neck without pad. I have had both and stability is not even an issue with the lighter guitars I've played. A poll would be intersting.

[David Doggett]

Taking Dennis' and Terry's suggestions, I set up a poll at : click here

[Rick Kornacker]

Lots of valid observations and, of course, opinions being expressed. It appears that no one considered the difference in SOUND.I'm not about to comment on which would have a better sound/tone but...there is a difference in the cabinet resonance and overall energy. Some builders would agree with this....even the amount of hardware underneath the guitar(everything under there screwed into the cabinet) can dampen the sound. Had a conversation with Bill Rudolph about possibly converting my "Willy" SD-10 to a full D-10. He told me that I might not like the difference in the sound of the front neck after the conversion. Hmmmm.....just some food for thought. Respectfully submitted, RK

[David Doggett]

Some people claim the bigger, heavier body has better tone. On the other hand, other people say the single body instruments have better tone. Go figure. I've played both, and can't hear any difference.

I know I write long posts, and some people don't bother to wade through them. But I think the tone thing is a non-issue.

[John Billings]

Well, I waded through your posts Dave! And I completely agree with you, although I find no need for the doohicky. I don't think S-10s are less sturdy, nor lacking in tone. I also don't see the need for a "wider stance." If you're rockin' your guitar all over, you need to be a little more gentle with the knees. Or maybe the knees are too stiff and need adjustment. Of course, my knees are stiff all the time, and aspirin doesn't help!

[Antolina]

David Doggett sez:

I know I write long posts, and some people don't bother to wade through them.

Don't kid yerself David. I for one enjoy those "long posts" and read every word. Thank you for the knowledge you share.

rc

[Chris LeDrew]

I posted this email message from Lloyd Green on another thread at his request. The thread can be seen here:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... 79#1083579,

But seeing that it's pertinent to this thread as well, I will post it here for good measure:

"Hi Chris...and Happy New 2008!
As a point of fact, and although no one has asked me, I do NOT rest my left hand on the pad, only the right.
This idea of a padded steel was my idea of a more expedient and comfortable way to do my job of cutting records and what that idea became from that point on was largely out of my control. The euphemistic "Loafer", which came years later was Ron Lashley's Emmons guitar version of the Sho-Bud LDG.
I never suggest any player use single, double or anything else. Everyone must find their own comfort zone with playing and it serves no good purpose that I can see to criticize those who don't follow others concepts of right or wrong playing. Ultimately, you have to play music on the thing.

Regards,
Lloyd Green"

[Robert Harper]

I miss my D 10. I had something to think about learning some day, sometine, I would axcdently that 10 string that sounded so great. reminded me I couldn't play bass either and lastly. This has nothing to do with this post

[Larry Strawn]

David D.

I also take the time to read your [long] post's.

Since I've been on this Forum I've always appreciated your thoughts and ideas, haven't always agreed with every one, but hey, we probably drive different kinds of vehicles also.

I like a pad, you don't, no big thing, but I do like your post!

Larry

[Tony Orth]

I have both an S-10 and an SD10. For me, the double body provides a much more comfortable sitting position. I feel so scrunched up on the single body. The knee levers, being back further, are more comfortable for me.

I do rest my right arm on the pad, but not the left.

Tony

[Lowell Whitney]

After reading the various posts in various threads, including this one, I now know why I can't play or sound any better than I do:

1: My guitar is red not black
2: I wear tan Nocona boots instead of black Tony Llamas
3: I use plain old cheap Dunlop picks and bar
4: and, I sometimes allow my arms to rest on the C6 neck while playing on the E9 neck. Oh well, I'm too old and poor to change now, so, I'll just keep on trying to play the danged thing with what I have.

Respectfully,
Lowell

[Tony Glassman]

I'm thinking about a triple-neck that has an E9th tuning on the middle neck with loafer pads on both the inner and outer necks.....

Definitely more stable and offers a resting surface for myself and anyone who wants to stop by for a chat (while the singer is bogarting my steel solo time)

[Ken Thompson]

Interesting topic. I have been thinking about it also since I play an S10 but practice on my D10. I notice that I hold my wrists differently on them. The more flat position of my wrists on the D10 give me a different feel than the raising or lowering of my wrist on the S10. I have not been able to determine which of the two makes me a better player but there is a distinct difference in the feel to me.

That being said, I just don't like the look of a pad on the steel. I think I would rather have the D10 and not use the C6th neck than have a pad. But then that is why I carry around my S10 for gigs.

[Tracy Sheehan]

Well, I waded through your posts Dave! And I completely agree with you, although I find no need for the doohicky. I don't think S-10s are less sturdy, nor lacking in tone. I also don't see the need for a "wider stance." If you're rockin' your guitar all over, you need to be a little more gentle with the knees. Or maybe the knees are too stiff and need adjustment. Of course, my knees are stiff all the time, and aspirin doesn't help!

Try heating pads.They are the best IMHO.

[John Billings]

Every day, Tracy! I spent the day today workin' on my 59 Permanent. The heatin' pad is waitin for me right now.

[Robert Harper]

Unfortunately, that is what I used the C6 for. Put a nice cloth, well a cloth on the neck and rest you arms while you drink your favorite bev

[Tracy Sheehan]

Every day, Tracy! I spent the day today workin' on my 59 Per manent. The heatin' pad is waitin for me right now.

If you are only 59 years old and your arms bother you ,you should see a doctor.You youngsters should not have these problems until you get old.

[John Billings]

Trace, I worked as a carpenter to pay for my musical habit. Too many shingles, too many floors. My elbows, and my knees are shot. I now am interested in restorations, as I can hardly play anymore. But I don't mind, as I'm enjoying rebuilding old guitars.

[Tracy Sheehan]

Trace, I worked as a carpenter to pay for my musical habit. Too many shingles, too many floors. My elbows, and my knees are shot. I now am interested in restorations, as I can hardly play anymore. But I don't mind, as I'm enjoying rebuilding old guitars.

Just razzing you John.Sorry about your arms and knees.Mine is arthritis in my legs but i really don't mind as i have been trying to kick the steel habit since the day i retired.Music is all i ever did and was sick of it but still coulden't quit.LOL.ANd they say smoking is hard to quit but it was much eaiser for me.than kicking the music habit.Play fiddle also but have no desire to do it any more.lol

[Brint Hannay]

While Chris LeDrew has already posted Lloyd's own words on the subject, in response to those who asked for a photo of a pro using the pad while playing, here's this:

[Mark van Allen]

Everyone must find their own comfort zone with playing and it serves no good purpose that I can see to criticize those who don't follow others concepts of right or wrong playing. Ultimately, you have to play music on the thing.

While the Icons of our instrument often contribute great insight here, these are words of wisdom I think should be plugged into at least half of the topic threads here. Maybe a few stickies?

It's all about the music, indeed. Go, Lloyd.