Pad or No Pad?

Ivan Rosenberg · Post by **Ivan Rosenberg** » 5 Jan 2008 6:24 pm

Hi there,
Just getting into shopping for a pro quality steel (have a Carter Starter right now). I was wondering, what's the advantage of having a pad? I've never been able to try one with a pad (not a lot of steel guitars where I live), and I guess I actually worry that it could get in the way--not with the barring hand but with the picking hand. I tend to to pick blocking and just a bit of palm blocking, and it seems like my right arm wants to be down a little when doing fast runs and pick blocking on the lower strings, and it seemed like the pad would get in the way. Anyway, has anyone ever regretted having a pad, or on the other hand, is there anyone out there who would never get an S-10 without a pad? Any advice would really be appreciated!! Thanks,
Ivan

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 5 Jan 2008 6:56 pm

'Maybe do a poll...
"How many use their Pad while they are actually playing?"

Bill Duve · Post by **Bill Duve** » 5 Jan 2008 7:58 pm

I wish I had one

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 5 Jan 2008 8:00 pm

Welcome Ivan,from Alabama,DYKBC.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 5 Jan 2008 8:50 pm

Ivan

up until i got my Mullen i never had a pad on any of my guitars , but after having one on this guitar i will not even consider a steel without a pad

Ivan Rosenberg · Post by **Ivan Rosenberg** » 5 Jan 2008 8:53 pm

thanks guys! hey, can I ask, what do you actually do with the pad--like, are your arms actually resting on it sometimes while playing? Or does having a double-frame give you more stability? I seriously have no idea what it's for : ) Thanks!
Ivan

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 5 Jan 2008 9:14 pm

Bill Duve wrote:I wish I had one

Why?

fwiw, Anyone got a pic of a "Pro" with his arms resting on a pad while playing the Pedal Steel Guitar.

Calvin, Why do your arms touch the pad?

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 5 Jan 2008 9:18 pm

Don't care for 'em myself. Does anyone actually rest their arms on the pad while playing? Seems like a bad habit to get into.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 5 Jan 2008 9:30 pm

I wouldn't have one. They are in the way, and they make the instrument bigger and heavier than it needs to be. When Lloyd Green invented the "loafer," he already had a great D10, and in those days you didn't just dump such a fine expensive instrument. So when he decided he didn't need the back neck, he had everything removed and a loafer put there, mainly to reduce the weight. Obviously he liked the arrangement, and Sho-Bud named such a model after him and it was closely associated with him. So through the years he had newer versions with the same arrangement. But if he had known from the beginning he would end up specializing on the one neck, who knows if he would have gone to the trouble off adding the space for a second neck and putting a loafer on it, instead of just playing a single-neck instrument.

Most of the proponents of the loafer are previous double-neck players who are use to resting their arms on the back neck, and are use to the spacial arrangement, so they are willing to put up with the extra size and weight. If you are moving from a single-neck to another single-neck, and are not use to the double-wide body, then why pay extra and lug around the extra size and weight? Have you ever seen a keyboard player with an arm rest in front of the keyboard? Wonder why not?

Some people claim the bigger, heavier body has better tone. On the other hand, other people say the single body instruments have better tone. Go figure. I've played both, and can't hear any difference.

Having said all that, on my S12 pedal steels, I felt a need for a picking-hand wrist rest. I was resting the heel of my hand on the body sometimes, especially when comping on the low strings. But since the body was quite a bit below the neck and strings, it wasn't convenient. I took a strip of wood about 1" wide and about the thickness of the neck (3/4"), covered it with duct tape, and taped it on the ledge at the back of the guitar, right up against the neck. It gave me a small surface that was about the level of the fret board. It is perfect for resting my wrist (actually the heel of my palm) when I want to, but also doesn't get in the way of either hand or arm. Someday I will replace the stick with a thin pad of about the same dimensions, and attach it with velcro. I think this would be a good option for manufacturers to offer on their single-neck models. Most of them have a ledge that is close to 1/2 the width of a neck.

Some people worry that there is not enough room for lots of knee levers on a single neck. But most of them have enough of a ledge behind the neck to add as many levers as you want. I've seen plenty of single-neck universals with 8 or more knee levers.

Finally, in previous threads on this, it was pointed out that if someone has really big feet and long legs, a double-wide gives them more room under the guitar.

So, unless you have big feet, or are simply use to the double-wide ergonomics, no, there is no "advantage" to a double-wide with a loafer. It's simply a matter of personal preference. For me, there is an advantage in not having that wide loafer in the way, and not having the extra size and weight. For gigging around town, I don't break my pedal steel down and put it in the case. I hoist it up on my shoulder, walk up my basement steps, down my front steps, and set it standing up behind the back seat of my minivan. I couldn't do that with a double-wide. And even if you do pack it away in the case, carrying a double-wide from the case up to the stage is a much bigger strain on your back. I just don't need that.

James Collett · Post by **James Collett** » 5 Jan 2008 9:43 pm

Whereabouts do you live in CA?

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 5 Jan 2008 9:49 pm

FWIW, I'm a double neck guy and I dislike anything rubbing against my wrists while playing. For that reason, I prefer the 3/4" neck height differential on my Sho-Bud D-10 as compared to the lesser 3/8" differential on my double-neck PP (though they both sound great).

....The point being, if I ever do buy a single-neck, it will most definitely be pad-free.

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 5 Jan 2008 9:50 pm

With the Sd with a pad on a double body comes certain advantages.
- I do like the pad to rest my arms on. Especially the right arm. It actually makes for a little less fatigue with that right arm bouncing up and down blocking the strings

- Some may disagree, but I think there is more stability in an SD as opposed to a single or a double.
Single, because there is more wood in the SD to combat the twisting and flexing. Double, because it has more changes of course and more potential for warping.
- My home built does have very minimal cabinet drop. It depends on the day but at worst it is 2.5 cents
and at the best it is 0.5 to 1 cent.

- Sd's look cool IMO

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 5 Jan 2008 9:56 pm

Bent Romnes wrote: - I do like the pad to rest my arms on. Especially the right arm. It actually makes for a little less fatigue with that right arm bouncing up and down blocking the strings

Are you saying your right arm is in contact with the pad during this "right arm bouncing up and down blocking" time?
Gotta YouTube?

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 5 Jan 2008 10:05 pm

Bent Romnes wrote:Some may disagree, but I think there is more stability in an SD as opposed to a single or a double.
Single, because there is more wood in the SD to combat the twisting and flexing. Double, because it has more changes of course and more potential for warping.
- My home built does have very minimal cabinet drop. It depends on the day but at worst it is 2.5 cents
and at the best it is 0.5 to 1 cent.

The supposed extra stability is a theoretical idea that presumes single-neck instruments are somehow defficient in stability. I don't notice that my single-necks are any less stable, or have any more cabinet drop, than my double-necks. They apparently have all the stability they need.

And I think double-wides with loafers look weird - like a combination of a musical instrument and a lounge bar.

I just don't see any real advantages, other than personal preference, which of course counts a lot.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 5 Jan 2008 10:19 pm

when i'm playing i never even notice the pad, having said that, i like it because it seems to give me the right body spacing from me to the strings plus i just like being able to lean on it while i am reading something or to put my tuner on.
... for me it just works

Ivan Rosenberg · Post by **Ivan Rosenberg** » 5 Jan 2008 11:08 pm

wow, thanks for being so helpful everyone--all together, you pretty much talked through everything I could ever want to know. For me, I like the feel of the pedals and levers with a single frame, and it sounds like I'm not missing out on anything totally essential by not having a pad, though I can see it'd be nice to have somewhere to set my Peterson tuner. Guess I'll probably follow my initial instinct to go for an S-10 on a single frame. Thanks again! Oh yeah, James, I'm in Arcata up in Humboldt County...
ivan

Dean Parks · Post by **Dean Parks** » 6 Jan 2008 12:03 am

fwiw, Anyone got a pic of a "Pro" with his arms resting on a pad while playing the Pedal Steel Guitar.

Lloyd Green

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbjViunwfvQ

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 6 Jan 2008 4:26 am

I had to check my Youtube videos to see if I rest my picking arm on the pad.

I do, so therefore I now know where I'm going wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4L29cGID5s

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 6 Jan 2008 4:56 am

Ivan...Another thing to consider is the difference you will experience when changing to an SD-10 as far as seating position. With a single neck, your knee levers are located directly below the neck therefore you adjust your position accordingly. An SD-10 will place your levers toward the rear where the C6 neck would normally be situated and your seating position would need to be readjusted slightly.

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 6 Jan 2008 5:04 am

Richard B.

I just watched the vidio of LLoyd Greene playing Farewell Party again. If my bad habit of resting my arm on my pad will help me play like that then I'm all for it!

Larry

Dennis Graves · Post by **Dennis Graves** » 6 Jan 2008 5:24 am

Think we need a poll here. I believe the majority would go with the pad. I would.

Dennis

Jim Eller · Post by **Jim Eller** » 6 Jan 2008 5:29 am

Dean,

'nuff said.

I use mine but don't play like that. Where'd I go wrong??

Jim

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 6 Jan 2008 7:42 am

I don't like reaching so far across what to me is wasted space, to get to the strings. Played a Kline U-12 for 20 years. When I'm not playing, I either rest my hands on the strings, or just put them in my lap. As far as the idea that a D-10, or SD-10 body is more stable, well I don't think that's an issue at all. With the rigid materials used in today's bodies, I'd think an S-10 would actually be more stable than a D-10. Fewer joints to move in a smaller space. I can understand why some people like the extra space for a more comfortable placement of knee levers, but this is not a concern of mine. Ricky put 6 knee levers under my Shobud S-10, and I find them quite comfortable.

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 6 Jan 2008 7:44 am

...I never even notice the pad; having said that, I like...the...body spacing...

I agree.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 6 Jan 2008 9:04 am

Sure enough, it looks like his arms are resting on the pad while playing.
All my steels are single body, no pad.
I had a BMI with a pad once (not quite an SD), and I just felt that the pad encouraged poor form.
I also didn't like that it requiered more holes to be drilled in the deck for mounting.
Even after watching the YouTube though, I'm not sure of the purpose/reason of/for the pad, let alone the SD body size for a single neck?