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Topic: Lever choices |
Antolina
From:
Dunkirk NY
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Posted 27 Dec 2007 10:31 am |
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Just had my Sho~Bud Pro 1 sent off to Jeff for repair. He's going to be putting on two more levers. Obviously, I'll have the two E levers and the 2nd and 9th string lowers but I'm wondering what I should have on the 4th. My present Marrs has the 6th string whole tone lower. I know that the levers can contol more than one string at a time so my question is this.
What are the best practical choices for the old country style I predominantly play?
_________________
The only thing better than doing what you love is having someone that loves you enough to let you do it.
Sho~Bud 6139 3+3
Marrs 3+4
RC Antolina |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 27 Dec 2007 10:46 am
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If I'm going to have 4 levers on a Pro 1 and I want a classic country steel then the 4th lever will lower the 6th string a half step and raise the 1st string a whole step with a feeler stop for the half step. In other words, raise the F# to G/G#. If you don't want to spend the $$ on the feeler stop, then I'd go with the G for classic country (Mooney licks, eg.) But I suggest going for the hardware. The full step raise opens up some beautiful stuff.
FWIW I needed to chisel away a little bit of wood by the changer to get the travel room for a full step raise on 1 (and I'm happy to say that it was an easy and successful job). But I certainly am confident that Jeff knows what he's doing on these babies. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 27 Dec 2007 11:32 am
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I'd have Bs to Bb as my fourth knee-lever choice.
Of course, we all have different musical priorities.
RR |
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Antolina
From:
Dunkirk NY
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Posted 27 Dec 2007 11:44 am
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What you didn't know was I'll ask why. 
Jon Why not the 7th string as well and what will I be able to do with that first string raise. Is it for single note picking or chords?
Talk to me about that 6th string lower and which E lever you'd put it on?
Roger Same question concerning the Bs.
_________________
The only thing better than doing what you love is having someone that loves you enough to let you do it.
Sho~Bud 6139 3+3
Marrs 3+4
RC Antolina |
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Tim Bridges
From:
Hoover, Alabama, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2007 12:13 pm
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Another option is to have S1 F#>G#, S2 Eb>E plus S6 G#<G on a lever, AND S2 Eb<D<C# with a half stop plus S9 D<C# and B's<Bb's on a LKV. I would also consider the PF pedal; S's 5,6&8 lower a full tone. You can share it at P4 with your C6th neck. You may want to drop a pull on the C6th neck on one string to keep it from being too stiff. OR, split this change and put the 6 lower on a KL. IF you want the PF change AND the LKV B<Bb, you'll need a split tuner on the B strings. Too many possibilities. It seems what ever you gain from a change, you lose something somewhere. I'm learning that there are more ways to play things than I have time to figure out. 
Last edited by Tim Bridges on 27 Dec 2007 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Antolina
From:
Dunkirk NY
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Posted 27 Dec 2007 12:18 pm
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Before this gets complicated, I should have mentioned I only have one E9th neck.
I'm 66 yrs young and I think that one E9th tuning will keep me busy for a spell.
_________________
The only thing better than doing what you love is having someone that loves you enough to let you do it.
Sho~Bud 6139 3+3
Marrs 3+4
RC Antolina |
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Tim Bridges
From:
Hoover, Alabama, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2007 12:35 pm
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| Well, you would have had the first Pro 1 D-10. I read that and my mind got ahead of itself; again! |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 27 Dec 2007 12:52 pm
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re: raising 7 a half step vs. lowering 6 a half step...........frankly, I lean toward 6 simply because I am accustomed to it. Advantages include smooth moves of playing, for instance, strings 4 5 & 6 with AB down and releasing the B while engaging the lever, resulting in a dom7 without having to pick the additional string (7). But the 7 raise has advantages too.
| RC Antolina wrote: |
Talk to me about that 6th string lower and which E lever you'd put it on? |
I don't understand the question. We are talking about a 4th lever, not an E lever.
| RC Antolina wrote: |
Jon what will I be able to do with that first string raise. Is it for single note picking or chords?
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both but more for single note picking. Listen to Hag--"Tonight the Bottle Let Me Down" intro for the reason you want that note (the half step raise). Mooney, I believe, got it a different way but his setup is quite different from the more standard framework we are dealing with here. |
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Micky Byrne
From:
United Kingdom (deceased)
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Posted 28 Dec 2007 2:59 pm
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Hi RC, I'll answer for Roger as he's probably out or eating his Christmas pudding Two simple things for the B lower on E9th are as follows, if you have your A+B pedals down, lowering your B will get a minor chord to the chord you're playing!! If you're playing open tuning ie no pedals picking strings 8,6,and 5...... to get a 7th chord, slide down 2 frets, as you start to slide down lower your B to get the 7th. These are just two examples, there are lots of other ways to use the B lower.
Micky Byrne www.mickybyrne.com |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 28 Dec 2007 3:51 pm
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Thanks, Micky!
...and, with B and C pedals down, lower your 4th and 5th strings for another way to get a diminished.
At the zero fret, strings 3,4 and 5 become an F#9th when you lower the 5th.
I like the B lower best for a quick passing flattened fifth note - example:
At the 5th fret, play 8,7, 6 and 5 as an arpeggio, slide up to the 7th fret leaving them ringing. At the same moment, add the 9th string, lower the 5th, then quickly release that knee and raise your C pedal and let it off again.
That's a pretty move..
there's lots more.
RR
Last edited by Roger Rettig on 29 Dec 2007 5:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 28 Dec 2007 5:25 pm
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Just for the record, I regard my B>Bb lever as indispensable. (No levers are indispensable, as proven by the masters who did/do without them.....spare me the sermon) I use it all the time in various combinations. A lot of thought goes into decisions such as 'what should a 4th lever do'.......the Carter-Starter goes with the B lever and that, most surely, was not arrived at lightly.
That said, I think I'll stick with my call but it's certainly not etched in stone.
No doubt about it---after agonizing over stuff like this, it's no wonder that the best choice of all, in the end, is...............adding another lever. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 28 Dec 2007 5:33 pm
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It's touch and go for me whether it's my third or fourth favourite knee-lever - lowering the 9th string is such a great move, so it's not an easy choice between the two for me.
Thankfully I can have 'em all!
I know we can half-pedal our B to C# pedal and get the same note, but it's so good to be able to lower the 5th below zero, too.
RR |
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mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2007 8:58 pm
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I would
raise 1 to G#
raise 2 to E
lower 6 to F#
with some fiddling I can get a feel stop for G on string 1 and on string 6..... not both at the same time. I can split the 6 lower with the b pedal to get a G as well for a pedals down dom7 chord... the problem for some is that when you raise 1 and lower 6 on the same lever, you lose your F#.... I believe that Paul Franklin argues against this combination on a thread somewhere.... it works for me though. I have recently added a 6th knee (LKL2)on a couple of guitars that lowers the G#s to G.... really nice for non-country stuff.
What am I saying???? Lever choice depends somewhat on what style music you are playing....
Jimmy Crawford used to say that a more complicated lever arrangement made it easier to play music.
I am starting to agree...... |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 29 Dec 2007 9:33 am
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| I hate tail-chasing which this is starting to look like but.....actually, my Bud is the first guitar that I didn't lower the 6th string a whole step. But with a wound string (my choice) I can only get the half so I'm learning to come off the B pedal to get the dom7. I assume that with a plain string I could get the full lower? There's another tough 50/50 call, with the trade-offs that either choice entails. |
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mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2007 9:47 am
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Jon,
You can get the full step lower on your 'Bud with a .022 plain. I agree about the advantage/disadvantage of the plain string...... I just live with it.
My Coop equipped S-10 will lower the wound string, but with two hole pullers it is a very long throw. I am thinking about having a couple of custom multi-hole pullers machined to experiment with. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2007 11:00 am Re: Lever choices
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| RC Antolina wrote: |
Just had my Sho~Bud Pro 1 sent off to Jeff for repair. He's going to be putting on two more levers. Obviously, I'll have the two E levers and the 2nd and 9th string lowers but I'm wondering what I should have on the 4th. My present Marrs has the 6th string whole tone lower. I know that the levers can contol more than one string at a time so my question is this.
What are the best practical choices for the old country style I predominantly play? |
Along with the 6th string lower, raise the 1st string to G# and the 2nd string to E. Even though it's a "modern" change, it sounds right in "old country".
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Antolina
From:
Dunkirk NY
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Posted 29 Dec 2007 1:04 pm
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Thank you b0b and all the others that pitched in. A particular tip of the hat to Jon who always goes a little above and beyond the call. I've learned a lot in this thread and even money sez a lot of others may have as well.
_________________
The only thing better than doing what you love is having someone that loves you enough to let you do it.
Sho~Bud 6139 3+3
Marrs 3+4
RC Antolina |
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James Collett
From:
San Dimas, CA
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 9:22 am
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My Carter-Starter came with a B->Bb; I didn't like it much (especially since there aren't enough changer holes for a split), so I switched to a high F#->G. It works much better forme  |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 9:52 am
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| James Collett wrote: |
| My Carter-Starter came with a B->Bb; I didn't like it much (especially since there aren't enough changer holes for a split), so I switched to a high F#->G. It works much better for me |
You seem to be saying that you changed the copedent of a Carter Starter. Is that true? I thought they were hard-wired.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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James Collett
From:
San Dimas, CA
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 10:20 am
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b0b-
They are, but I just unscrewed the nylon tuner, tweaked the pull rod a little, and attached it to the 1st string raise hole. On a c-s changer, a metal plate goes across where the lower return springs go, with slots cut and springs inserted only where the standard copedant calls for a lower. Thus, lowers are restricted, but raises aren't. The bell cranks are also fixed, but that'd not a big deal, as long as it's close to where it needs to be. |
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