loud rock music

Gene E. Jones · Post by **Gene E. Jones** » 20 Dec 2007 12:07 pm

I spend most of my time practicing steel guitar but i am a much better electric guitar player, jazz,blues,country etc. therefore i always like to go to see guitar players no matter what genre. This last week i went to hear vince neil( lead singer for motley crue) and bret michael( lead singer for Poison), both good 80's rock groups. As expected they played so loud that i could barely make out the lyrics (hardly at all with vince neil) and although it seemed that the guitar players had something to offer i really could barely make out their solos due to the loud bass. drums. and other electric guitar playing those 6 string barre chords. Why would an artist that is a vocalist not insist on being heard and why would a guitar player not want to be heard? I honestly think had i been up there playing i could have literally played anything even out of key and hardly anyone would have noticed. I almost think that one of the guitar players actually was just playing anything because it sure did not sound right. I think one thing is that the audience is more about just drinking and making noise than really listening critically to what is being played. Of course the loudness gives energy to everyone. I guess it is more3 about putting on a show than really about the music.I know i heard eddie van halen twice and one could hear what he was doing. I also saw joe satriani but his own playing was extremly loud although one could hear most of it. Just curious what some of you rock players or former rock players think about this. If one goes to A neil diamond concert he seems to insist that everything he sings can be heard and i do not think he would let the band drown out the lyrics. etc.gene

Richard Sevigny · Post by **Richard Sevigny** » 20 Dec 2007 1:34 pm

If I can't hear the vocalist or the lead instrument during a break I blame the soundman

For me it's about the mix. I would rather turn the sound down a notch and hear everything than have everything turn to mush.

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 20 Dec 2007 1:55 pm

Richard,

I think that kind of mix is intentional.

I tried recording a demo for a local Punk Rock band a few years ago and that's what they wanted. Everything just buried under itself!

I finally refered them to a bona-fide recording studio. Even though they weren't very good I just couldn't get it in my head to bury vocals and instruments like that!

Larry

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 20 Dec 2007 2:31 pm

Maybe it's good for the music to drown out the lyrics on some of the rock songs,Being an old geezer I really try not to condemn each new generation as they come along[some times it's hard]I just try to remember [enons] ago when I was a teen,Myself and my peers did every thing we could to PO the old geezers of our generation,we were playing and listening to [that devil music] Elvis and Little Richard,So when these young guys are jumping around on stage like grasshoppers on a hot stove making what I think is just a lot of LOUD,LOUD,NOISE,just have to remember I was doing something similar fifty years ago,only not as loud[only because we did'nt have Marshall stscks and distortion pedals]

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 20 Dec 2007 3:03 pm

Charles Davidson wrote:only not as loud[only because we did'nt have Marshall stscks and distortion pedals]

Bama Charlie
At 13 yrs. old I was playing bass guitar with a country band at the American Legion every Sat. night, but during the week me and my friends were listening to and playing that awfull rock and roll noise, [as my Grand Dad called it] Beatles and such, and just think what I could have done if I'd had one of those Marshall stacks!!

$:\$

Larry

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 20 Dec 2007 8:39 pm

Larry,When I got started the only beetle I knew of was a June bug or a tumble bug,The only marshal was marshal law,would plug in a guitar and mike in a LITTLE sears amp,could'nt get LOUD,but was picking just the same,A little later came a strat and Fender twin,I was picking in high cotton then.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 21 Dec 2007 2:52 am

I remember the first strat I ever played in the mid 50'sa little band I was in was going to cut our first record,we only had sears guitars,Mr Earl Baker of Bakers music in Columbus Ga loaned me a new Strat to do the session with[Earl was always helping young guys starting out]I got to keep the strat over the weekend,I thought that was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen,It was real radical at the time,with the contured body and slick maple neck,sure did hate to take it back that monday AM,DON'T YOU KNOW,[damn it I could'nt resist that.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 21 Dec 2007 3:22 am

Forgiven, seeing as it's Christmas

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 21 Dec 2007 3:32 am

I agree, I have never heard an excessively loud Country Music band ! Only rock bands:

and

Forget those other guys..

I'm still dreaming about what I could have done with one of those Marshall Stacks !

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 21 Dec 2007 7:59 am

Well, they could have just had a bad sound guy. But with many rock groups it is intentional to have that wall of sound at high volume, with no vocals or leads sticking out. It can be very effective to raise and keep the energy level high, when it is done well by groups such as the Rolling Stones and REM. Being able to hear the words is not so important for them. The vocal is just another lead instrument buried down in the raging mix along with everything else. Punkers and some metal groups carry it even further. They cultivate the appearance of everything being out of control.

I have actually had the opposite problem with some rock and blues groups who don't have good singers. If the singers were kept down in the mix, their flaws wouldn't have been so noticeable. But they sometimes insist on too loud vocal mikes, and proceed to scream into them at close range, even in very small venues, completely overpowering the instruments, and putting all their flaws on harsh display. And I've seen some sound guys who didn't understand this problem, and put the vocal mikes loud, the way they would for a great vocalist who only needed a backup band playing quietly in the background. I've seen this both in live performances and in the studio. Of course, when the vocalists hear how it records, they sometimes think they sound fantastic and don't recognize the problem - that's the problem.

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 21 Dec 2007 5:16 pm

If I walk into a club that has a band who completely over powers the vocalists, I walk right back out the door.

Gene E. Jones · Post by **Gene E. Jones** » 21 Dec 2007 7:15 pm

As a guitar player i nevcr got to play as loud as these rockers do but i think that they also can be more effective with their pull-offs and hammer-ons at high volume, and i think it is easier to play faster with these techniques at high volume. I dont think they have to play like a jazz group but if they were just a little less loud more people would get something out of the performance. But like david pointed out i do think they want the music to just be that loud. gene

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 22 Dec 2007 12:47 am

For most of my years of playing loud rock music I always had trouble hearing myself. I blame that on loud drummers. I needed a hundred watt half stack to keep up to some of them.