Problems w/Marrs Restoration Super Pro

Wayne Wallett · From: Shermans Dale, PA USA - R.I.P.

About 3 months ago I received my Sho-Bud Super Pro after a complete Marrs makeover. Looks beautiful, plays smooth, sounds great but pedal changes keep going out of adjustment. Originally changers were lubed with 3-in-1 silicone, after a couple months of problems with what appear to be the changers sticking I gunked it out and tried Mullen Guitar oil. Same problem after a couple weeks. Gunked out the changers again and tried tri-flo oil and still having problems. Called Jeff Surratt a couple of times but no answer, left phone mail mssg. No replies. Love the guitar but just can't trust it on a job..... would be a disasterous experience. Any suggestions?????
Thanks,
Wayne Wallett
poboy@pa.net

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

I've known Jeff Surratt ten years and have never known him to not give excellent service. I suggest you get in touch with Jeff.

Chuck McGill · From: An hour from Memphis and 2 from Nashville, R.I.P.

I think Jeff maybe out of pocket with Duane's illness. You should give him another chance to make it right. He will allways take care of his customer.

Paul Wade · From: mundelein,ill

jeff did my m.s.a d-10 about 3 months ago. came back great. give him a one more time a great guy to work work with i give him a 100% for me doing the work

p.w

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

I'm going to say this once because I am very emotional. Duane is in very serious condition right now. I just spoke to Jeff. The last thing that Jeff is doing right now is addressing steel guitar problems. This is not a good time to bring this up. Please allow Jeff some time. Jeff is a man of honor. Thank you.

Dave Diehl · From: Mechanicsville, MD, USA

Wayne, These guys are right. I've dealt a lot with Jeff and Duane and they are good honest folks and will work with you.

Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

I don't see where Wayne is questioning jeff's integrity or honesty. He's got a problem with a guitar that he apparently uses to gig with and is merely asking about a solution so he can use it now. If someone can offer a way to fix his guitar so it works then everybody's happy.

richard burton · From: Britain

Wayne,
If you can be more specific about the problem, we can probably find the solution.

eg if the problem is that the changer fingers are not moving the full travel when the pedals are pressed, it could be something simple like the pull rods not being tight enough at the bell-crank.

Wayne Wallett · From: Shermans Dale, PA USA - R.I.P.

First off let me say I in no way mean to denagrade Duane or Jeff. They did a fine job of restoring my Super-Pro, just that the pedal changes keep shifting on me. They are fine gentlemen and were nothing but kind to me. I am not a newbe at this, I have completely taken Sho-Buds, Emmons apart and put them back together so I have quite a bit of experience in this area. That's why I have been tinkering with this for three months. If the guitar is freshly lubed and pedals adjusted (especially 5th string raise) it works fine for a short time then the pull goes flat. Another application of lube and it comes back. Occasionally the 8th string pedal pull goes out on the E to F knee lever return. I have tried three dirrerent kinds of lube(silicone spray, Mullen Guitar Oil, and lastly Tri-Flo light oil (each try I flushed out the previous lube). All act the same way. I know about applying more spring tension by cutting off a coil or two, I know about adding or removing the counter springs, etc. been there done that. Just looking for good suggestions from other peoples experience.
Regards,
Wayne

Larry Strawn · From: Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.

Wayne,,

This may be a dumb question, but is it possible the changer has a worn spot, and when freshly lubed works fine, then eventually begins to "hang" on this worn spot not letting it function properly?

Just thinking out loud. Very Happy

Larry

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Antolina · From: Dunkirk NY

Wayne,

Occaisionally communications break down for one reason or another. I'm going through much the same circumstance myself.

Jeff Surrat is an honorable man and will surely do the right thing. Be patient. Give him a break right now. He's got a lot on his plate these days. I assure you, you're not being avoided or getting the run around.

I too haven't alway been able to catch him as quickly as I'd like but that's in no way a reflection of his business ethic.
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John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Are the nylon hex tuners slipping? Threads to loose?

Wayne Wallett · From: Shermans Dale, PA USA - R.I.P.

Reply to Larry's suggestion...Marrs installed new changer fingers, shouldn't be the problem. Reply to John's post...Marrs installed all new hex nuts and if it were slipping on the threads would not come back in tune when lubed. Someone earlier suggested the bell crank may have slipped...same reply, would not come back in tune when lubed would be short on travel until retightened. Keep on sending suggestion though!!! I have pretty much eliminated the obvious ones. Gotta be something wierd...
Thanks,
Wayne

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Hmmm! happens on more than one string. I'm wonderin' if the holes in the new fingers might just be a little too tight. I've had to slightly enlarge finger holes before. Sometimes there's a little bit of a variance within a batch of parts, and one or two thousandths can make a huge difference! 8 with be perfect, and 2 will be just a little tight. There has to be a little bit of room for the lube. Not much, but a little. Fingers should spin very freely on the axle. Not wobbly, but easily.

Tim Bridges · From: Hoover, Alabama, USA

Have you cleaned the changer since lubricating with so many different lubricants? Depending on what you're using, you can actually create "gunk" by applying different lubricants. The silicone will likely not be combatable with oil, or solvent based lubes. The silicone is an emulsion. Thickeners and stabilizers are used to keep it emulsified. It can also be water based, or oil based. Water and oil will create another type of sticky, binding, emulsified, gunk that can be very tacky.

Clean the changer and use lubricants recommended by the maker of the guitar. Make sure the nylon tuners are 50% screwed on to the rods. Keep cleaner off of plastics and lacquer; it will definitely discolor both permanently.

Only offered because I didn't see where you cleaned the changer since doing all that lubricating.

Charlie Tryon · From: Glovertown Newfoundland, Canada

Ok how about cross shafts for play and lube? Also what about the roller nut?? Check every where a part moves and make sure it is free and lubed. Just my 2 cents on the matter.
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Jani Peter Sandvik · From: Kolppi Finland

wayne.

Have you checked that the hex tuners arent pressing the fingers.
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Mike Cass · Posted 18 Dec 2007 3:27 pm

....what John Billings said, and Id also check your return spring tensions. It doesnt sound like an isolated problem so Id look to a part of the changer that has the most in common with the other parts,ie.,the return springs. I believe they're fully and easily adjustable on the Marrs instruments. New guitar=new springs,and springs will change on you.
Hope this helps and yes,we're all praying for Duane,he's a real jewel!

MC

Dave Diehl · From: Mechanicsville, MD, USA

Wayne, Duane replaced the fingers in my Super Pro and when he returned it too me he told me to make sure if I took them out of the housing for any reason, to put them back in the exact order. Each of the slots in the housing are a slight bit different and the fingers are customized for each slot. So if you decide to drop the fingers to look at it, use caution to keep track of the order and put them back in the same order... otherwise, they may not fit well and bind. I did drop mine after getting it back to buff the housing and there were each a slight bit different.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Dave, abdo-lutely good advice!

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I'm not directly familiar w/ the LeGrande changer, but I might try removing the rods from one of the malfunctioning strings and work the changer manually, to see if it hits both ends of it's excursion (raise and neutral) without any binding.

One way quick way could be done with a spare wound string. Feed the string through a raise finger hole so the ball-end butts up against the back of the changer finger. Wrap the free end of the string around a pencil or screw driver, so it makes a T-handle. Then pull and release the changer, imitating a pull rod motion, and see if ithe changer finger still hangs up.

Presumably the string diameter is less than that of the pull rod, so it if it still malfunctions that might argue against the changer holes size being the culprit. It could also rule out hex head or bell crank binding problems.......Don't forget to observe the finger to see if both the raise and lower portions are not moving simultaneously.

After that I might consider dropping removing the changer or at least dropping a finger or two for a visual inspection.

Jerry Jones · From: Franklin, Tenn.

Don't know how long it takes your guitar to go out of tune after a lube job but you might try this:

Starting with a fresh lube and adjustment. Play instrument till your change goes out of adjustment. Then, without retuning this change, lube your changer again and see if the change comes back in tune (or improves). If it does, it may indicate that you have a binding or friction problem…just a thought.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Message deleted because Jeff has contacted the customer and shown that he is the class act that I have always heard he was.

Again, my prayers go out to both Duane and Jeff.
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Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

I don`t think lube is going to help...
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Tommy White · From: Nashville

As said before, Jeff and Duane are the most honorable and responsible men I know. I'm sure one of them will solve the problem soon.
Mike Cass and Tony Glassman offer viable explanations and solutions. This system is a simple one. Disconnecting lower return springs to the offending changer finger and putting the pivots thru motion would be first on the list,barring the hex tuning nuts are not slipping and bellcranks are secure along with all cross-shaft mountings being secure.Just as lowering springs being to loose can cause malfunction, it is also possible to ruin lowering return springs, as if they are too tight or cut to short will cause improper functions, especially with this type changer.
Good luck and please let us know your results.

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