Sho Bud Permanent

Phillip Telford · Post by **Phillip Telford** » 8 Dec 2007 5:55 pm

I was Curious to find how old my Bud is. Its a permanent with a complete wood cabinet, no endpates. Looks like the aprons and necks are rosewood, and the top is flame maple. Any ideas?
Thanks, Phil

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 9 Dec 2007 8:21 pm

Could you post some pictures, please.

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 9 Dec 2007 11:50 pm

No endplates means it's probably a pretty early one. Does the decal read "Madison, Tennessee"?

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 10 Dec 2007 12:23 am

How many strings does it have -- 8, 9 or 10? Twenty five or 24 inch scale? Roller nut or solid? What are the mechanics underneath? If it has original decal, what does it read? What are the leg threads? Do you have the old tin or steel Hooper case?

I have seen cabinet ends from the fifties and even one with a Permanent changer but Fingertip mechanics underneath, meaning a set up that may be changed without needing a blowtorch.

Mine is pretty blonde birdseye from the fifties, used to be a double eight with red pickups and black necks but was converted in 1959 to a double nine with green necks and green pickups and scale length shortened to 24. I have a solid nut, Madison decal, and Permanent welded mechanics. The E9 neck, or D9 neck is on the inside; C6 is on the audience side.

Do you have a date on the long shafted 100K pots that poke through the end plate and through the wood cabinet end?

I like the long bodied Permanents because you have room to make the lowers a pull rather than a release.

Sigi Meissner · Post by **Sigi Meissner** » 10 Dec 2007 12:53 am

Sorry forumates, I know this is not related to the topic.
But I'm having a hard time to get parts. In particular 8 pedal rods,
26 inches long. Mine is a Super Pro from 1980 and I need also 2 Bell Cranks and 2 Pull Rods. In case one of you has an other Idea than Ricky Davis or Duane Marrs (Parts out of Stock right now)

Thnx for help

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 10 Dec 2007 2:35 am

Sigi, there is a guy selling some in your country
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... light=rods

Phillip Telford · Post by **Phillip Telford** » 10 Dec 2007 10:21 am

It's a Madison guitar that had welded rods underneath. Its is a dbl 10 with a roller nut. It is also a 24 in scale. I don't know the tread size of the legs, but there bigger than the later 70's sho-bud's. I will post some pic's after I get off of work tonight. Thanks for your help,
Phil

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 10 Dec 2007 10:58 am

PT, it's my understanding that the guitars without endplates were the first made. And a D-10 would have been pretty unusual back then. Roller nuts? My Madison D-10 is a 1959, and it doesn't even have roller nuts. Can you post some pics?
Of course, these were all custom-made guitars, so maybe someone ordered an all wood body late in the Madison era??? Here's a pic of 1 of my keyheads.

The one in the middle. Pay no attention to the cat! She's a camera hog!

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 10 Dec 2007 11:46 am

John, my guitar, which I got from Al Udeen this year, has the card cluster on the front apron as you have but is inlaid red and black into the maple. It is not a decal. The card suits are a bit elongated from those on the decal.
If you Google Pete Drake you are likely to find a photo of him playing his cabinet end that had bellcranks underneath if I remember correctly. I also remember seeing a brochure from Sho-Bud that offered the "Custom" Permanent model and the Fingertip model and a wood cabinet end option. All guitars had rollers. So, would that have been 1964 at the earliest?

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 10 Dec 2007 11:54 am

Great info Chris. I do remember that they were still makin' Perms during The Age of The Fingertips, but I had no idea they were still offering the all wood cabs!
PT's is a Madison guitar though. Hadn't Shobud moved to Nashville by the time they started F-tips and roller nuts? I guess not.........

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 10 Dec 2007 12:28 pm

I imagine Pete Drake's cabinet end guitar was modified by Sho-Bud a number of times. I am only speculating, and have no way of verifying that idea, by the way. That was my disclaimer.

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 10 Dec 2007 2:42 pm

The Perms with wood ends are from 1957 to early 1960. 1959 were the first D-10s. From your desciption I would say late 59 or 60. Rollers did'nt come along till 61 or 62, they were string end balls at first. My first pedal guitar was an all wood perm. I am currently playing a late 60s Perm. and loving it. I'm looking for another one if anyone has one for sale.

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 10 Dec 2007 2:58 pm

Johnny

Sho-Bud offered the cabinet end option at the same time it offered both the Finger tip model and Permanent models. That is not to say you could get a Fingertip with a cabinet end, but it does place the option as available into the Fingertip period.

A gentleman here in the Los Angeles Area has a cabinet end with Permanent changers and Fingertip mechanics underneath.

Phillip Telford · Post by **Phillip Telford** » 10 Dec 2007 3:16 pm

I also have a Nashville permanent that I'm going to completely restore. The difference with the Madison permanent and the Nashville permanents were the undercarriage and pull fingers. My Madison had rods welded to one bell crank, and the Nashville has individual bell cranks just like the fingertips. You could change your set ups a lot easier. The pull fingers on the Nashville changer are also wider than the Madison. I also got a fingertip that has a tone that will knock your socks off.

Steve Waltz · Post by **Steve Waltz** » 10 Dec 2007 3:33 pm

I'll second the request for pictures. I've been collecting pictures of permanents and fingertips. Could you guys post pictures. There aren't a lot of photos of those guitars around. There were so many options of woods, colors and inlays in those days.

Thanks,

Steve

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 10 Dec 2007 3:38 pm

My 1959

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 10 Dec 2007 3:41 pm

My Fingertip. Rosewood aprons. Curly Maple tops.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 10 Dec 2007 5:33 pm

John Billings, now you done it, I think I need to come over there to your house and help you play all those cool guitars!!

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 10 Dec 2007 6:10 pm

James, you're welcome any time! I know, that you and Coop know, that my interest is in restoring old guitars. I don't think John would have sold me this wonderful Permanent if he didn't think I was going to restore it.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 10 Dec 2007 6:49 pm

Boy, you got that right, John!

KENNY KRUPNICK · Post by **KENNY KRUPNICK** » 10 Dec 2007 7:03 pm

John, you have a purrty cat.

I love our cats.Their names are Zack,and Bunny.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 10 Dec 2007 7:18 pm

Kenny, my cats are named after two chi-com dictators. Mao is the one in the pic. The other is named Hu. Hu means tiger in Mandarin Chinese. Mao means the animal that makes the mao (meow) sound. Girlfriend was born in Shanghai.

TonyL · Post by **TonyL** » 10 Dec 2007 7:42 pm

This one used to be mine...

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 10 Dec 2007 11:00 pm

No endplates? Like this...

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 10 Dec 2007 11:37 pm

Skip

That looks amazingly like my Permanent. Except I have the knees removed. And it is completely torn down right now. Thanks for posting those pics.

That card cluster is inlaid. It is not a decal.

Chris

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