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Topic: String spacing on a new steel? |
Dan Meadows
From:
Texas
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 9:24 am |
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Would a NEW S-10 guitar have wider or narrower string spacing depending on the brand or are they all the same? If they are not all alike in that area does anyone know which one(s) may have the widest spacing?
Does distance between strings really matter when learning on your first guitar, if that is even a valid question? I'm looking for what most people would consider "best" if that is the appropriate word. I'm a beginner and I have a lot of questions that I wonder about. I don't have a steel yet.
Dan |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 9:49 am
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Dan,That's a very good question.I prefer a wider spacing,There was a discussion about this a few months ago that listed most of the steel guitar spacings.I have a Dekley in my house that seems to have the same narrow string spacing that my old Carter had.My Desert Rose has a wider spacing like a ZB or Sho-Bud.A friend of mine up here just bought a GFI guitar which also has the same spacing as the Desert Rose.Spacing is very important,for some reason I have trouble with guitars that have a closer spacing. 
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Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Dan Meadows
From:
Texas
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 9:54 am
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Thanks Stu. That's something I didn't know for sure.
I am just thinking I may like a wider spacing myself if there was a difference between some guitars. I have the GFI in mind to look at along with Jackson Blackjack and BMI probably for now. Thanks for the info.
Dan |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 9:54 am
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Good question Dan.
The question was NEW guitars. You builders out there, is there a standard? I mean within 1/32".
All I know is that the old ShoBuds had wider spacing than the MSA's of late 70's vintage..but that's neither here nor there. We are now in the 2000's  |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 10:10 am
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Bent,That's sort of the rule of thumb for me also.I had a 70's MSA and that had a narrow spacing which I think a few guitar makers are still using,and I also had a Lloyd Green Sho-Bud which had the wider spacing which I like better,The GFI has the wider spacing,not sure of all of the others,If someone could post a chart that would be cool,Stu 
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Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 12:45 pm
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On the Rains sitting in front of me from strings 1 to 10 its 3 1/32" at the bridge and 2 1/2" at the nut.
On the Sho Bud LDG from strings 1 to 10 its 3 1/32" at the bridge and
2 11/32" at the nut.
I didn't measure my Franklin (its in the studio with Greg Leisz today) but it feels the same as the Rains.
The last couple BMI's I played seemed the same.
Its not a big deal at all in my opinion. When it gets weird for me is switching to dobro and old lap steels. Its still not a problem though.
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Bob |
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Fred Layman
From:
Springfield, Missouri USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 1:05 pm
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| Although there may be exceptions that I don't know about, the standard spacing between strings is 11/32" at the changer end and 9/32 at the nut roller end. |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 1:45 pm
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all I know is that my Sho~bud Pro I had a noticeably wider spacing than the Carter Starter that it replaced, and it felt immediately more comfortable.
Thats one of the things that puts me off the idea of a 12 string guitar (or a 14 - not that I've seriously considered one) is that the string spacing would have to be narrower. |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 2:01 pm
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| Fred, why the difference? I thought it had to be the same at both ends. |
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Howard Tate
From:
Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 2:16 pm
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| I think this is related. On my psgs and eight string lap I need finger picks, but on the reso with wider spacing it feels more comfortable without them. I like the wider spacing but I don't think it would be practical to go much wider then my Mullen on a D-10. |
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Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 2:55 pm
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My Fender Stringamaster is spaced 3/8 at the bridge.
My MSA Millenium U12 psg is 11/32 at the bridge.
Ron |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 3:13 pm
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Jeremy,I agree!
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Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 6:37 pm
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Honestly, Since you don't play now.. what's the diff? I put 30+ years in on one pedal steel and it took me about 2 days to get used to a new one.
I switch from a 73 maple neck telly to a yamaha classical and the spacing & different strings don't make any difference.
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Bo Borland
Rittenberry SD10 , Derby D-10, Quilter TT12, Peavey Session 400 w/ JBL, NV112, Fender Blues Jr. , 1974 Dobro 60N squareneck, Rickenbacher NS lapsteel, 1973 Telecaster Thinline, 1979 blonde/black Frankenstrat
Currently picking with
Mason Dixon Band masondixonband.net |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2007 7:11 am
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By the way, there's an advantage to having equal string spacing at nut and bridge. The angle of a bar slant is the same anywhere on the neck. This is not much of an issue with pedal guitars but is one on lap steels and resphonics.
My guess is the move to narrower string spacing on steel guitars is evolutionary based on trying to make the entire guitar smaller.
Jim |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 11 Dec 2007 8:19 am
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| Jeremy and Stu, not all 12-strings have narrower spacing. My Emmons p/p, Fessenden, Zum, Carter and MSA Millenium 12-strings have exactly the same spacing as their 10-string counterparts, and the same as my D10 Sho-Bud Pro III and S-10 Maverick. I once played an older MSA 12-string (owned by someone else) that had narrower spacing that I didn't care for. So it all depends on the brand and model. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2007 8:23 am
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I believe, initially, the string spacing narrowed up when the manufacturers went from 6 sting, to 7 string
s and then to 8 string guitars. They used the same neck, fretboards, head stock and etc. and just narrowed up the string spacing to make it fit. |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 11 Dec 2007 9:25 am
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David,That makes sense to me.I have a Dekley 12,and a Dekley 10 and the spacing is the same on both.Bo as far as playing all of those guitars with different spacings not making hat much of a difference,I can jump from guitar to guitar also without missing a lick...You just might not like the licks that I'm hitting,but there is just something about a wider spacing on the pedal steel guitar that feels better to me...Now I'm a strange duck though so it might be some kind of sick mind control thing.Blanton steels are the same spacing at the bridge,and the nut.
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 11 Dec 2007 10:05 am
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| Stu Schulman wrote: |
| Blanton steels are the same spacing at the bridge,and the nut. |
And so is my home made :-)This, of course was not by design and planning but by ignorance.
And NOW I know why the three used pups I had didn't fit...the strings covered magnets 1 through 9 only!
So it is nice to see how Blanton has the same thing as me.
The next question would be "WHY"? Why do they operate with 2 string distances at either end? One would think there is a legitimate reason for this. |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 11 Dec 2007 10:47 am
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Bent,Jerry Blanton told me that bar pressure was easier when the string spacing was the same at both ends"No Taper",I guess on the old MSA's they offered gauged rollers for an extra cost?What I noticed on the Blanton was getting in-between strings was much easier also.From what I've seen...which isn't much living up here the spacing on GFI guitars seems to be the widest at the nut.
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 11 Dec 2007 4:47 pm
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Jim P wrote By the way, there's an advantage to having equal string spacing at nut and bridge. The angle of a bar slant is the same anywhere on the neck.
Jim, I don't know what steel you play, but if you tell me the bar slant, would be the same all the way up the neck, I'd have to ask how is that?
When the frets get much narrower, the higher up the scale you go, it sure better decrease the angle of a bar slant, regardless of whether the strings are the same spacing at the nut and bridge. That has absolutely no bearing at all, on the angle that a bar has to be slanted to be in tune..
What does matter is that since the FRETS "can't be all the same spacing, the higher up the scale you get, the much LESS angle the bar has to be slanted during a bar slant.
I guess no one else picked up on that one. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 11 Dec 2007 6:34 pm
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
I believe, initially, the string spacing narrowed up when the manufacturers went from 6 sting, to 7 string
s and then to 8 string guitars. They used the same neck, fretboards, head stock and etc. and just narrowed up the string spacing to make it fit. |
Amen ! As the number of strings increased the spacing narrowed. Unfortunately, fingers didn't.
The only reason modern steel guitars have narrower spacing than early Hawaiian guitars is that the manufacturers didn't want the fingerboards and pickups to become too wide. The string separation should not change, whether you have 6, 7,8, 10, 12 or 14 atrings.
The string spacing on modern PSGs is much too close. |
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Dan Meadows
From:
Texas
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Posted 11 Dec 2007 7:25 pm
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Being able to play several different brands of new guitars before I buy will be a good thing then from what I gather. A decision may come down more to tone and pedal and knee action feel rather than string spacing if they are all pretty much the same. This discussion has been helpful.
Dan |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 12 Dec 2007 7:36 am
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I remember quite distinctly when I went from my Gibson, 6 string, lap guitar to a Fender T-8 Stringmaster. The string spacing was significiently different.
After I had played the Stringmaster for a while, it was really quite difficult to go back to the Gibson with its much wider string spacing. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 12 Dec 2007 8:30 am
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Got me there Don. Brain skip on my part.
What I should have said is there is one less variable having a bearing on the angle of the bar slant.
The real reason (which I neglected to mention also) - A slant that encorporates three adjacent strings across three adjacent frets (commmon forward slant)is more in tune if the strings are parallel. Non-parallel strings exacerbate that situation. Billy Robinson, a slanter extrodinaire, pointed this out to me.
Try it on a piece of graph paper. Neglect the sublte fret dimension change. Exagerate the change in taper of the strings so it's amplified. Connect the dots - parrallel strings create a straight line. Angled strings create a curved line. Since our bar is straight the parallel string example will be more in tune. |
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