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Topic: Expansion- I Think NOT!! |
Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2007 9:06 am |
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| Growth in terms of expansion in idealisms, directly related to the advancement of knowledge in studies of technical steel guitar issues, seems to be declining; or have I missed something relative to this notion? Where is the expansion? |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 7 Dec 2007 9:54 am
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I think it is always this way. Social evolutions are slow, and the mind races ahead. One can invision an ideal, in technical expansion, but the idea must be in common with many others, and thus the time lag. It goes so slowly we don't notice.
And revolution isn't likely.
Huge amounts of money are poured into medical and technical pursuits; we can't expect to see similar breakthroughs in steels.
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 7 Dec 2007 10:10 am
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| Copernicus found out what happened when he tried to expand the minds of the "entrenched management"... |
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Bob Borzelleri
From:
California, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2007 10:17 am
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I recently read an article that suggested that Bill Gates and Warren Buffett were considering establishing a foundation to expand the body of knowledge regarding the steel guitar.
On of the primary drivers for this effort appeared to be the lack of a steel guitar in any of the currently popular teaching methods such as Guitar Hero, Guitar Hero II and Guitar Hero III.
Hopefully, they will be successful where others have apparently been willing to let the steel guitar languish outside the world of virtualism.
Last edited by Bob Borzelleri on 7 Dec 2007 4:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Stephen Silver
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 7 Dec 2007 10:18 am
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you are correct, you have missed not only something, but a whole lot.
_________________
Life is mostly Attitude and Timing |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2007 12:26 pm
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Stephen S.,
Somewhere tucked away in the commentary archives, a quote from a wise man lies dormant. He said; "Everyone thought he was a fool. When he opened his mouth, he proved it." The one liner snipings are just another of a bag of tricks to avoid putting a foot in the mouth. The silent approach gets old quickly. There are thousands of methods used for avoiding questions. One is brevity, and another is absolute silence. |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 7 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
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Bill, the growth curve may probably be decribed as asymptotic and will stay that way until some "breakthrough" technology comes along.
Just like adding pedals was "breakthrough" in the first place. What's the next innovation? |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2007 2:44 pm
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Ray,
Accumulated knowledge of great musicians is lost forever as time robs us of those who have approached the infinite boundaries of musical perfection. The great Alvino Rey, Chet Atkins, Segovia, and many of our well known expert steel guitarists have passed, and taken with them the treasure chests of knowledge. It's a complex issue that offers no resolve. |
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Steve Norman
From:
Seattle Washington, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2007 3:59 pm
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kfc switched from the spork to the spoon..
crazy
_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS |
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Randy Phelps
From:
California, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2007 4:06 pm
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| Bill Hankey wrote: |
Ray,
Accumulated knowledge of great musicians is lost forever as time robs us of those who have approached the infinite boundaries of musical perfection. The great Alvino Rey, Chet Atkins, Segovia, and many of our well known expert steel guitarists have passed, and taken with them the treasure chests of knowledge. It's a complex issue that offers no resolve. |
Bill, the above is a huge part of the problem. Here is my horoscope for tomorrow... I think it applies MIGHTILY to what you are talking about... You cannot move forward effectively if you spend all your time looking back.
"A person from your past might be holding you back from enjoying your present -- or rather, the memories of this person are keeping you from moving forward. Are you stuck in the past? Yes, it's important to understand how old relationships or old choices can affect you today, but you could run the risk of getting stuck in nostalgia. Not much can get done when all you do is compare your current life to the life you used to have. Put away the photo albums and decide to live your life walking forward."
Respectfully. |
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Michael Barone
From:
Downingtown, Pennsylvania
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Posted 7 Dec 2007 5:02 pm
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Bill, I would respectfully disagree in that the forum itself, with it's rate of expansion, disputes your assertion.
Mike |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 7 Dec 2007 5:17 pm
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I think it would have if not for The Forum.
The PSG fad has been over for just over the length of time The Forum has been in existance. IT's a little ironic.
Everything runs in about thirty year cycles.
A New Johnny Lee will come out with a hit song for a new hit Country Western Movie that starts another Live Music craze, and we'll be good for another ten years. Maybe longer.
In the meantime, The Forum will compile all the knowledge and will hopefully be available for the next wave.
God willing.
EJL/HFLE |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2007 10:28 pm
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Bill said
| Quote: |
| directly related to the advancement of knowledge in studies of technical steel guitar issues, seems to be declining |
There's the key of the matter.
The advancement of the instrument has very little to do with the study of technical steel guitar issues. It has to do with steel guitarists transcending the technical issues and making good music.
The success of the steel guitar is all about the music played on the instrument and very little to do with the advancement of pedal steel idioms.
I would suggest the 'breakthroughs' in the steel guitar will *not* come through technology, but instead through musicians who can transcend the technical nature of the pedal steel and concentrate on making music. |
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Randy Phelps
From:
California, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2007 11:20 pm
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| Eric West wrote: |
I think it would have if not for The Forum.
The PSG fad has been over for just over the length of time The Forum has been in existance. IT's a little ironic.
Everything runs in about thirty year cycles.
A New Johnny Lee will come out with a hit song for a new hit Country Western Movie that starts another Live Music craze, and we'll be good for another ten years. Maybe longer.
In the meantime, The Forum will compile all the knowledge and will hopefully be available for the next wave.
God willing.
EJL/HFLE |
that is a great post Eric.
Was the Johnny Lee (urban cowboy) stuff good or bad for steel guitar? What would have been the effect on steel if that era had not happened? |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 8 Dec 2007 2:36 am
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Oh I think it was GREAT, and it brought TONS of really talented people into playing live paid gigs in the era after the main ET, Hank T, Hank S, Lorretta L, George J, Charlie Pride etc run was kind of petering out. Also gave the great players new gigs, and artists like Ricky Scaggs who was opening for Emmy Lou in Georgetown at a hole in the wall, a brilliant career.
I always liked the Johnny Lee Mickey Gilley, "Urban Cowboy" music. I still remember the licks to "Cherokee Fiddle" and wish there were still bands that played those songs.
In "the day", '79-'84 or so, there were 20 or more clubs in the Portland Area that went 7 nites a week, and after-hours in a half dozen. Our "Steel Conventions" yielded a dozen guys that played full time. Now there's none, and none. Sadly.
As always I'm not consulting "pesky facts and figures".
Just winging an opinion out there.
The PSG Forum regardless of the current stage of "the fad" seems to relate ALL the compiled knowledge, facts and figures by the people that actually lived through it AND the "older guys" that played in the 60s.
It oddly seems to have happened "just at the right time".
Also it adds the fact that since the "big live industry" is at an end, most of the players are not too busy playing or travelling to write about their experences.
I'd never have had any time to do it when I was playing full time/afterhours. Hell, I didn't even have a phone.
EJL |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 8 Dec 2007 3:46 am
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Eric,
If you ever take time to stroll lumberly into any capital town or city in America, check out the status quo of steel guitar expansion. Prepare to encounter hoards of nonconformists who ignore with relative ease, the instrument played with a "bar" and finger picks. Nearly 100% of those questioned will not be concerned with how a s.g. is played, or who plays the instrument. It gets scary when they attempt to throw a bluff by false pretenses. The facts are in! Expansion or cultivation of the instrument will require more than egging the patrons on through conversations. If promoting the artistic abilities of the most talented of steel guitarists, would in effect bring about a new wave of interests, then that could be termed expansion, as more musicians move to studying the steel guitar. |
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 8 Dec 2007 5:26 am
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Eric is right! Before the Urban Cowboy movie hit the screens, there were just a few C&W clubs in the tri state area that had been around for years, then big clubs opened like crazy to catch the wave.
I worked non stop from Atlanta to Conn. for 4 years.
_________________
Bo Borland
Rittenberry SD10 , Derby D-10, Quilter TT12, Peavey Session 400 w/ JBL, NV112, Fender Blues Jr. , 1974 Dobro 60N squareneck, Rickenbacher NS lapsteel, 1973 Telecaster Thinline, 1979 blonde/black Frankenstrat
Currently picking with
Mason Dixon Band masondixonband.net |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 8 Dec 2007 12:20 pm
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Well Bill, I can see where this is leading..
We have the modern day equivalent of: The Pharisees, The Sadducees, Old b0b as Pontius Pilate, and a group of people looking in vain for a hitherto unknown, Common Born Possessor of Simple Truth.
Someone they can believe in and follow.
Someone to lead a New Worldwide Expansion of Pedal Steel Guitar in a Period of Pronounced Decline.
Someone that "Makes the Nightly News".
I might warn this would-be savior of one minor thing:
After his apostles sell out, and deny him, The Crowd will choose to free Barrabas;
And execute this poor guy post haste in a grisly and untoward method.
Sho~Bud and all.
It's just the way we tend to do it..
Feel Lucky?
<:0)
EJL/HFLE |
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Scott Shipley
From:
The Ozark Mountains
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Posted 8 Dec 2007 12:26 pm
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Maybe it's because I also play b@njo and may be a little thick, but I kinda don't get what this thread is about.............  |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 8 Dec 2007 1:24 pm
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Eric,
People still give freely, as well as accepting gifts from afar. Nothing has changed! We feel our losses more through modern communication. Messages were slow in deliverances by word of mouth in the projected period of earlier times. The California Gold Rush and deep sea divers exemplify the true nature of man's lust for riches. Riches may be of things that do not pertain to yellow gold! Some folks are richly rewarded because ther're prettier, handsomer, funnier, or just fun to be with. Intelligence may play a part in becoming the recipient of expensive gifts. Many people in America find it difficult to hold on to a few coins after the glut is satisfied at the consumer level. Yes, I'm sorry for not walking the streets where steel guitars and country music abounds more frequently; and I don't fear the jaws of the jackass. |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 8 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
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Even so, I'd caution against finding precious pearls of culture in Gloucester Bars.
Musical or otherwise.
I found them to be rather less than genteel in my mid 70s visit there..
Good luck, and be on guard for companions jingling any newfound silver pieces in their pockets.
EJL |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 8 Dec 2007 1:34 pm
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Steve Norman
From:
Seattle Washington, USA
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Posted 8 Dec 2007 1:38 pm
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lol
_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS |
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Randy Phelps
From:
California, USA
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Posted 8 Dec 2007 2:58 pm
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| Eric West wrote: |
Well Bill, I can see where this is leading..
We have the modern day equivalent of: The Pharisees, The Sadducees, Old b0b as Pontius Pilate, and a group of people looking in vain for a hitherto unknown, Common Born Possessor of Simple Truth.
Someone they can believe in and follow.
Someone to lead a New Worldwide Expansion of Pedal Steel Guitar in a Period of Pronounced Decline.
Someone that "Makes the Nightly News".
I might warn this would-be savior of one minor thing:
After his apostles sell out, and deny him, The Crowd will choose to free Barrabas;
And execute this poor guy post haste in a grisly and untoward method.
Sho~Bud and all.
It's just the way we tend to do it..
Feel Lucky?
<:0)
EJL/HFLE |
Eric, I have a friend who believes that we Americans are constantly fighting the Revolutionary war. I'll try to briefly explain (simplified to be sure)... (sorry this is US based) Americans crave royalty.... but we bristle against it almost as much... so, in our history we become enamored of someone: (you pick here) Elvis, Roosevelt, Beatles, Michael Jackson, OJ, Chuck Berry, Hank Williams etc etc) we build them up and make them HUGELY popular and then we rip them to shreds and then after some time.... we kinda resurrect them. My buddy explains this in fabulous detail and it is compelling (at least to hear him explain it.)
There are fabulous players playing today no doubt. Maybe more than at any time previous! But, the territory has been trammeled to the degree that the music becomes a nod, a re-cognition of what has been done. To take the music, the instrument in a new direction will involve the discovery of new lands or a new way of hearing music. This challenge is encountered in every endeavor requiring discovery. What to do after the discovery and innovation?
The "Moore's Law" period for pedal steel was probably the mid 40's to the late 60's.... after that... has been the law of diminishing returns.... the good news as Eric adroitly reports is the figurative gathering of breath to examine, chronicle and postulate about what happened and what it meant. When that little part of the calculus and physics is complete the disarray will reach its nadir, we'll have a gathering of resources and concepts and then a new and amazing explosion of creativity. As they say, it is as it always has been.
bing.
On his deathbed, supposedly Freud said to Jung, "The Dogma, the dogma, stay true to the dogma." Whereupon, he passed away. Jung wrote--> paraphrasing--> we seek to discover the rules of things, the parameters, what is possible and we codify the good and what that means... but it is that very dogma that becomes the chains of the prison. (to illustrate) Buddy Emmons sets us free, but clinging to Buddy Emmons' work is to be imprisoned. Even Buddy Emmons probably doesn't want to play his original innovations.. he wants to be free to transcend his previous work. That is true of most artists. Discover and develop a dogma, then blow it up. It is the cycle of creativity, no? |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 8 Dec 2007 3:11 pm
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Bill Hankey...
| Quote: |
| Growth in terms of expansion in idealisms, directly related to the advancement of knowledge in studies of technical steel guitar issues, seems to be declining; or have I missed something relative to this notion? Where is the expansion? |
I think the internet has caused a boom in every field of endeavor. I believe steel Players are more knowledgeable directly related to the internet and this continues. What is lacking is the ratio of new steel players relative to the ratio of information on pedal Steel. If I had a son and he came to me and said dad I want to learn to play Pedal steel guitar I would discourage him as would most parents simply because of the high expense and poor success rate. I would rather have him learn standard guitar for around $500 (new) barely professional equipment total investment (guitar, amp, and etc.)As apposed to more like $2000 for the Pedal Steel (used) barely professional equipment.
IF A SON WANTS TO DO SOMETHING CRAZY LET HEM DO IT AFTER HE GETS OUT ON HIS OWN AND USE HIS OWN MONEY.  |
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