What Does Your Group or Band Wear?

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 21 Nov 2007 1:00 pm

You guys are right,Calvin,myself,or any of you will never get the chance to fire the Big E,But I bet Mr. Tubbs would have when Buddy was playing with him,I heard a comment Cal Smith made,He asked Earnest,what can I do to not have to wear this cowboy hat? Earnest without skipping a beat said,You can get OFF this bus son,And I'm sure he meant it.All the giants that built the country music industry ,such as Earntest,Little Jimmy,Hank Snow,Porter,[can you even thing of Porter on the opry,or ANY stage in jeans and a tee shirt]Hank Thompson,even farther back to Bob Wills,Spade Cooley,or Gene Autry or Roy Rogers,these guys were SMART enough to know it's not called show business for nothing,The music is a HUGE part but not everything.How would old Blue Eyes[IMO only was the greatest entertainer of the last century]looked like in street wear instead of his Tux,He would have sang just as great,but would not have been the same,KISS is my favorite rock band,not for their musical ability,but for their costumes and antics on stage,Remember when they tried to perform without their makeup,did'nt work.It's call SHOW business guys,Worked a show awhile back in Virginia,there was a group on the show that were great,BUT looked like they had been working on a city garbage truck all day and came right to the gig,I know this don't bother some of you,For myself it's a BIG turn off,don't you know.

T. C. Furlong · Post by **T. C. Furlong** » 21 Nov 2007 6:56 pm

In the 70's when band uniforms were in, we got a week long gig filling in for a house band called The Midnight Cowboys at an all night (9PM to 5:45AM ouch!) joint called Mama Mia's in Park City, Illinois. When our band leader was making the deal to play there, the owner asked if we had matching suits. Our band leader answered yes. When we showed up in our regular nice but non-matching stage clothes, the owner barked, "I thought you said you had matching uniforms". Without missing a beat our beloved leader replied "We do but you didn't expect us all wear the same one on the same day" The remaining five nights we found ourselves all wearing the same thing on the same day.

TC

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 21 Nov 2007 10:02 pm

or say visually that we don't give a damn about those paying the freight

Many would vehemently disagree that dressing casually makes that statement. As I said earlier, there are two distinct crowds here, while one seems to understand and respect the other (even though we would not participate in playing "dress-up") the other group seems to think we're just bums.

Funny, but us "bums" don't seem to have much of a problm getting...or keeping... gigs. Just not in places you frequent. I've ever been fired from a music job for my clothing choices except one bluegrass festival 30 years ago...and it's not 30 years ago NOW. The term "show business" is so dated I think the only place you hear it is Vegas lounges featuring washed up 50's pop singers.

Calvin, though, can have all the opinions in the world and they aren't really based on first hand knowledge, since he's never played on stage. He'd have no idea what the crowd reaction would or would not be to him personally - he's never "been there" - and sitting in the audience does NOT give one the same perspective. Try the shoes on Calvin - then let us know how much it matters.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 21 Nov 2007 10:39 pm

let me see now ...all this do your own thing , non conformity , to hell with what anyone thinks attitude of today....ooops wait a sec, that's what we were doing in the 60s and 70s ...now who is living in the past haha

lord knows i am not a michal jackson fan, but think fast : what 3 things come to mind ....no matter what order you put them one of them will be the way he looks . whats is your opinion of him? you can't tell me it's not influnced by the way he looks
if the bums want to look like wanta be rock stars
do it. but the only ones your fooling is yourselves.
your the one's playing dress up, dressing like your favorite punk rock star.
there is nothing new about the look your going after, we just thought it went out with the 70s

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 21 Nov 2007 11:29 pm

What the heck is a "favorite punk rock star" supposed to mean? And exactly how do they dress?

What affect does whatever-that-is have on the listener at, say, The Whiskey? The Roxy? The Viper Room? The Key Club? How about the Coors Amphitheater?

You seem to be under some impression that NOT dressing in matching suits or fancy duds is a form of emulation of some "style", when it's instead simply wearing casual clothes; are jeans and a flannel shirt "bum" clothes? Oh, but jeans and a sleeveless T-Shirt are?

Calvin - do you know that there is an audience that doesn't care about that stuff? Tell me - who sells more tickets in today's market - the guy you describe as the "punk rock star" (sort of a trichotomy of terms) or a band of guys all wearing the same suits?

See Calvin, as I mentioned - I, Dave Mudgett, Steve Silver and others seem to understand the genre you prefer, but just don't choose to participate. You don't even comprehend the other side of the coin, and don't seem to want to attempt to. And I'll repeat - until you've seen/felt the reaction of the crowd from a stage, you'll always be missing an extremely critical part of the puzzle.

That part being that as long as the music is good, *most* of them don't care if you dress casually.

Do us a favor - be very specific. Define your idea of "bum" dress, and define the "favorite punk rock star" dress as well. So far you haven't been real specific, just critical of generalities.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 22 Nov 2007 12:42 am

Just to be clear - I do sometimes participate in Calvin's genre, and do sometimes dress up for gigs. Sometimes it works for what I'm doing - western suit, tux, whatever. But for a lot of other gigs, I just wouldn't fit if I came out in a starched shirt and polyester slacks, or even a cool western suit. Let me assure you, I've done it and taken the flack. Scruffy t-shirt and jeans, ripped or not - if that's what works, I do it. Whatever - they're just clothes.

Maybe you'd understand this better if you thought of yourself as an actor on the stage playing a part. Try being an onstage musician in "The Grapes of Wrath" and going out in a plaid Wal-Mart shirt, polyester slacks, and patent-leather shoes. Forget it - they'll give you a pair of ripped up overhauls, a t-shirt, and a bandana. Least that's what they gave me when I did that gig. And I was damn happy to do it, great gig.

there is nothing new about the look your going after, we just thought it went out with the 70s

Obviously, the stuff that riles you guys up so much didn't go out in the 70s or you wouldn't be running your mouth off griping about the deplorable state of current popular music and the shameful way these "bums" dress.

As far as conformity goes - my earlier point is that the "crawled out of a dumpster" dress can be just as much a "uniform" as anything else. Charlie talks about KISS - they totally bore me for exactly the same reason he likes 'em. The emphasis is all show, no music, to me. But it's a big, wide world out there with a hugely diverse bunch of people who see and do things their own way. You can get used to it or make like Sisyphus.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 22 Nov 2007 12:42 am

seriously, I once played in front of 500 people in a diaper, and thats it... The chicks dug it!!!!. It was perfect at the time.

That was 30 years and 40 pounds ago....these days the girls would be racing toward the ladies room to barf at such a revolting spectacle.

Today, my choice of stage wear is geared more towards flash, and I am considering a Zircon encrusted jock strap, big hot dog hat and Bozo feet...

Hey I too kind of like the """cowboy"" look, but it truly is dated, .. honestly,most of us aren't cowboys...

IMHO its high cheese in the modern age, unless it is truly part of the show...

That being said, I do agree with those that feel that dressing like a 3rd world refugee on stage is inappropriate and disrespectful.. Clean untorn and somewhat neat body coverings should be the order of the day, Stesons optional... bob

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 22 Nov 2007 1:26 am

Ernest Tubb was working the Caravan Club in Albuquerque, where they had a strict dress code which included a ban on hats, even on stage. When ET found that he and his Troubadours would have to play bareheaded he told them to pack it up. The club owner came out to the bus to discuss it and Ernest wouldn't let him on until he put on a hat. They played the gig.

Huntsville prison rodeo, circa 1980.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 22 Nov 2007 8:44 am

well....i guess Jim considers it a character flaw the fact that i don't get on a stage somewhere and try to be some one that i'm not ....a rock star
and that i'm not trying to impress anyone
the views that i express should be of some value as i see it from the perspective of the same one's paying the stage musicans, i have no bias as to my own ego....oh and by the way, i never once said that everyone had to wear matching outfits ( altho i do like that look ) i just said anyone that gets up on stage should dress like a respectable human being and not a bum

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 22 Nov 2007 9:46 am

Ernest Tubb might well be an object lesson for they who 'dress for the occasion.' Many posts here celebrate this laissez-faire attitude, but as you all know, in and for his band, it was 'band dress for the occasion,'--an idea not dictated by the audience.

And here I gamble: at the gig opportunity, how many here would have looked Tubb (or, today, anyone else of similar status and philosophy) in the eye and laid on the 'DFTO' schtick?

admin · Post by **b0b** » 22 Nov 2007 10:31 am

Uniforms are out of style, but I think that a band that coordinates their attire a bit looks better on stage. I wouldn't want to be wearing a t-shirt if the rest of the band is dressed up. I'm also uncomfortable if I'm over-dressed for the occasion, compared to the rest of the band.

In my opinion, the musicians should never be more casually dressed than the audience. That's how your appearance can lose gigs. There are people who don't know good music from bad, who judge a band solely on their appearance and stage presence. They are some of the easiest customers to satisfy. It's a no-brainer - you gotta look the part to keep the gig.

Marc Jenkins · Post by **Marc Jenkins** » 22 Nov 2007 10:34 am

I think that this discussion is pretty hilarious. One one side, there are folks saying that you should dress for the occasion. The other side can't understand how this is a reasonable proposition unless that includes dressing up, usually way up.

This is not an exclusively COUNTRY music forum guys!

Here's some photos of a guy dressing for his audience. He does what he wants, and people LOVE him for it.

Please note that this guy is wearing a suit at the Ryman, and a t-shirt at some big rock show.

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 22 Nov 2007 11:01 am

Marc nailed it, as far as the punk example goes,,,they spend hours getting ready. Hours!

Its hard to get your hair to stay that way!

And this is one of the bands I love to see, partially because of the mood set by the clothes

If these guys didnt dress the way they do,, the music would still be good,, but the shows would not be as fun. Not to get all philosophic and all, but music really represents the cultural aspects of a group of people. Putting on somewhat iconic clothes lends cultural authenticty to the band, and opens barriers the audience may have prior to hearing you.

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 22 Nov 2007 11:06 am

Bravo, Young! I suppose some could ask, is he dressing for the audience or the Ryman per se, but Young makes a fine point.

(Hmmm, think I'll have to buy one of his CDs.)

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 22 Nov 2007 12:50 pm

Steve's pics make a great point as well, and yes - you DO dress for the audience, to a degree. I'm not wearng shorts and a T shirt to a wedding gig, but I'm not wearing a suit to play a local club. And as many have said, the matching-suit thing is dead except as a caricature, where it CAN be very effective; but doing it seriously is horribly dated and IMO silly.

i guess Jim considers it a character flaw the fact that i don't get on a stage somewhere and try to be some one that i'm not ....a rock star
and that i'm not trying to impress anyone

Not at all Calvin. I'm just saying your opinion is based on extremely limited knowledge as you're trying to express opinions about stage wear as a musician who has never BEEN on stage. And no one said you need to be a rock star - those were just examples of where your particular choices might seem out of place. Your scope is limited by your lack of experience - not a character flaw, but honestly there's not much credibility preaching about stage wear done by a non-gigging musician.

Initially your statements ticked me off - but now I realize you just don't have any grounding or experience in the matter. It would be a wonderful thing if you would try to find a few guys to jam with, and go play even "open mic" nights or offer to play somewhere for tips - the experience would, I think, reorient many of your perceptions about the audience - it's totally different when your not part of the audience, but instead the focus of it.

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 23 Nov 2007 11:16 pm

Read this whole thread... interesting discussion. I feel that dressing for a gig is like dressing to go anywhere. It is usually based on the type of place and purpose you are going.

As Jim said.. he wouldn't wear a t shirt to a wedding nor would he wear a suit to a local club date.

Seems like common sense comes into play here.

If you want to wear a western suit along with your whole band then go ahead... sometimes it does set the mood.

Usually these days, that look is dated. BUT if dated (vintage music) is the "gimmick" of your band, then it works well. I saw several bands that played in Chicago that were all dressed in traditional Western garb. It works for them and sets the mood.
Gin Palace Jesters - great Vintage Band. They sound fantastic!

Actually, back in the 50's and 60's these bands that dressed in these clothes looked really cool. However, I bet you wouldn't be able to interest any of them (if living) to dress like this for a 2007 performance....

BUT, if your band is not marketing themselves under the Vintage Band "schtick", and you are playing more modern type of music and are dressed vintage...you could look out of place along with the rest of the band in in out of context type way.

Like I said, seems like common sense applies.

Additionally,...
I have read a lot about Johnny Cash, for example.. he rarely wore black when he was off-stage.

Porter Waggoner rarely wore rhinestone laden clothes when he was off stage

meaning...on stage this was thier gimmick or "schtick" not something that they would normally wear.. a "uniform" if you will....

I agree you should look appropriate to the room, crowd, and/or genre.

Common sense?

Mike Winter · Post by **Mike Winter** » 23 Nov 2007 11:44 pm

Right...it all boils down to common sense. They don't teach that in school, though. You either have it or you don't. Calvin wouldn't have to worry about firing a pro like Buddy or Lloyd...they are pros with common sense. Pros will dress appropriately for whatever gig they're playing.

There's certainly a difference between dressing clean and casual...and showing up to play a gig smelling like a wet buffalo. No one here has suggested the latter, and I don't imagine anyone who was watching Buddy play in his yellow tank top gave it a second thought, let alone a first...no one with any sense, anyway.

Roger Edgington · Post by **Roger Edgington** » 24 Nov 2007 8:30 am

For about a year now we have dressed in black suits white shirts with ties with cowboy hats and boots. Several bands around here dress similarly(Jake Hooker,Bobby Flores,Ray Price). We play western swing and old shuffles and waltzes. We have a large following and they like the way we dress now.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 24 Nov 2007 9:05 am

Roger, that makes perfect sense, and is likely also a regional thing - you're playing to a Texas audience

Wear that stuff to a club in West Hollywood and you'll either get your a$$ kicked or some guy/girl will ask you for a date....

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 24 Nov 2007 1:08 pm

In west hollywood guy/girl is a single category isnt it? Man I hate playing there. Somehow I always leave Hollywood shows poorer than when I came. What is a good venue for future reference? I have played the knitting factory and the hotel cafe. Also played the Bordello in little Tokyo, I think the cowboy outfits would have worked there.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 24 Nov 2007 1:44 pm

guys, what we are talking about here doesn't have to be "cowboy suits" anything will work as long as
(1) its clean
(2) its not torn
(3) its not a Tee shirt
(4) not sandels
(5) it would be nice if it were pressed

is that to much to ask...

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 24 Nov 2007 2:19 pm

Not plaid.

Calvin ... you're fired!!!

Michael Lee Allen · Post by **Michael Lee Allen** » 24 Nov 2007 2:53 pm

Steve Norman...I make a profit in West Hollywood on a regular basis and almost no hassles after I lecture the hired-gun Ashkenazi violinists about politcal mouthing-off. I DO have to wear a tuxedo, but so do all the other guys, and I'm used to it. Many years ago I was pretty unhappy with my first day job requiring a suit and tie. After about three weeks I was used to it, ended up with a closet full of suits and a Brooks Brothers charge card. I did the suit-and-tie deal seven days and five nights a week nonstop for over ten years. It's just clothes. But other people judge you by them. and also pay you accordingly.
MLA

Marc Jenkins · Post by **Marc Jenkins** » 24 Nov 2007 4:09 pm

Calvin Walley wrote:guys, what we are talking about here doesn't have to be "cowboy suits" anything will work as long as
(1) its clean
(2) its not torn
(3) its not a Tee shirt
(4) not sandels
(5) it would be nice if it were pressed

is that to much to ask...

Me and Neil are still going to wear our t-shirts, ok?

G Strout · Post by **G Strout** » 24 Nov 2007 10:38 pm

I do a jazz type single (on guitar) 5 nights a week. I just wear a dress shirt, slacks, and sometimes on the weekends I will wear a sport jacket. Of course, I always wear clean underwear in case I am in a wreck on the way home.