Why did Jerry quit playing steel?

Alan Kendall · Post by **Alan Kendall** » 15 Nov 2007 6:37 am

I wonder if any of us would know the difference between the Jerry Garcia of accordion playing and the Buddy Emmons of accordion playing.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 15 Nov 2007 7:27 am

So we have gone from dissing Jerry,
to dissing each other in the drop of a bar.

Same old, same old.

If only Myron Florin had dropped the accordion
and played PSG on Lawrence Welk,
it would be a different world today.

Alan Kendall · Post by **Alan Kendall** » 15 Nov 2007 7:37 am

Mmmh interesting. I didn't realise I was "dissing" anyone.I should have put a smiley face at the end of my post.My apologies to anyone I might have dissed.

Rick Abbott · Post by **Rick Abbott** » 15 Nov 2007 9:34 am

I just read this whole thread. I won't add my opinion of the subject as I have noticed something in general(though not in specific) about having an opinion on the Forum. I am a relative newcomer on the Forum, I'm primarily a rock musiciam that started on dobro 11 years ago then progressed to PSG, I am a former Deadhead. I am not a pro player, I cannot play the "standard" steel tunes, I don't use it like a "piano" with all the string movement, I am a lead guitarist on the instrument. I love PSG, but I'm hardly a "purist". I do prefer to listen to and work towards the vintage styles and tones, with the freedom of knowing I don't posess the greatness of the greats, neither do most of us.
EDIT:
Rant removed, I over-reacted and am not meaning to hijack the thread. Thank you, gentlemen, for your words of wisdom

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 15 Nov 2007 10:46 am

Hi Rick,

regarding the forum:
I hang out at a few forums and this one is very tame by comparison. But it is still the net and there will always be a couple in every forum who will deride posts that somehow annoy them either thru simplicity or repetition. People from other forums actually meet up in real life to have fist fights over their stupid meaningless internet arguments.
The net turns some people into complete fools doing things they wouldnt otherwise do and saying things they would never say in person. Trust me when I say this place is far better than most. I do understand what yu are saying tho, but ave kind of accepted it as "just the way the net is".

For what its worth, my very first post here was "Jerry garcia played pedal steel?"...the very first response to that admittedly ignorant question was "here we go again!" with an eye roll emoticon. hehe. Some got upset with my post, others were nice enough to patiently explain to me garcia's steel legacy. whatever ..I lived and learned and the old timers managed to survive and forget (and hopefully forgive)my inane first post.

anyway, chin up and cheers!

Mark Lind-Hanson · Post by **Mark Lind-Hanson** » 15 Nov 2007 11:35 am

As for me, I'm so glad Jerry took up the guitar over the accordion. A simple twist of fate.

Chip McConnell · Post by **Chip McConnell** » 15 Nov 2007 8:57 pm

It always surprises me when people draw a distinct line between classic country and country rock artists like Jerry Garcia, as though you have to be on one side or the other of some kind of generational war that still rages on. I was introduced to classic country by the music of the Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia, who was a great fan of country music. The Dead covered songs by George Jones, Merle Haggard, Johnny Cash, the list goes on. On one of Garcia's acoustic records there is an out take of him playing a Lefty Frizzell song with a lot of love. Years ago I tracked down the original versions of these songs because I was interested in the music that influenced that band. Given the veneration bands like the Byrds, the Dead, and so many of their contemporaries had for country music, I'm more surprised by country rock fans who don't have an interest in classic country than I am in old timers who don't get Jerry Garcia.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 15 Nov 2007 11:44 pm

I'm more surprised by country rock fans who don't have an interest in classic country than I am in old timers who don't get Jerry Garcia.

That's because those fans are usually a level removed from the influence of those artists - The Dead, The Byrds (a few - most, especially the originals, were folkies, not country fans at all) et al my have been influenced by classic country artists, but THEIR fans were influenced by THEM - and it doesn't always jump backwards like you're thinking.

Flatpickers who were influenced by Clarence White took his style further...most did not reach back into the Joe Maphis catalog - if anything, more ended up finding out about Django Reinhardt via Clarence.

Most musicians look back one iteration. Clapton, Beck, Page, Hendrix, Bloomfield - they looked back at B.B. King, Albert King, Albert Collins...the NEXT group of electric blues players looked at Clapton, Page, Bloomfield, Hendrix and Beck as the benchmark players. A few rarities like SRV looked further back, but were still primarily grounded in the 60's/70's white electric blues.

So I don't find it surprising in the least. As one long-time country-rocker, I casually looked into the earlier influences...and found they moved me in reverse. So I turned the other way and never looked back.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 16 Nov 2007 1:27 am

Jim Sliff wrote:

Most musicians look back one iteration. Clapton, Beck, Page, Hendrix, Bloomfield - they looked back at B.B. King, Albert King, Albert Collins...the NEXT group of electric blues players looked at Clapton, Page, Bloomfield, Hendrix and Beck as the benchmark players.

I can verify that. A few years ago I was playing in a blues rock band (the "gimmick" of the band, if you can call it that, was that they had a steel player) and when I joined, the leader gave me a tape of songs the band was doing, and every single song on the tape, without exception, was a cover version of the song by a white (and usually British) rock band.

I tried to get the guy to listen to Muddy and the Wolf, but he wasn't interested. He honestly didn't see any difference between the originators and the 1st generation of copycats.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 16 Nov 2007 5:45 am

Rick Abbott, don't go.
I never thought you the new voice was dissing anybody.
It was more of the 'usual subjects' getting into it again.

This is just one of the hot button threads,
and most threads stay pretty civil, and
as in any family there are disagreements.
If you wade into a Jerry Garcia thread,
you can expect a certain strain of devicivness.

But as Ben noted, it' ain't so bad here compared to
say Stratocaster threads or purist blues etc.

Look around at the OTHER places you can easily ask
a stupid question asked many times before.
Many will answer from several points of view,
a few will say do a search first,
then give an answer.

And some few will start arguing THEIR points of view on the subject.

But most likely YOU will HAVE gotten your answer
and sveral strains of food for thought surrounding it.
So ask away.

All in all it is a pretty darned friendly group here,
and nice in person too. Just some subjects ALWAYS raise hackles.
We have such generational, regional and cultural AND musical variety here, it is a give there will be
some disagreements.

Jerry is one of them.
JI vs ET tuning is another.

But if you post in Extended Family that you're ill
or something bad happened to you or family,
chances are the outpoaring of affection and well wishes
would shock you. Especially when it comes from someone
you have just had a full on disagreement with.
But it happens.

So hang in, apply tincture of benzoine and ask away.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 16 Nov 2007 6:19 am

I tried to get the guy to listen to Muddy and the Wolf, but he wasn't interested. He honestly didn't see any difference between the originators and the 1st generation of copycats.

Typical. I had Freddie King's "Hideaway" on my iPod in the car and a friend riding said "hey, that's that Clapton song....man, this guy's not very good".

Fish - drag that 400 over here any time you want and we'll fix you all up. Lemme see, where did I put that damned router?

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 16 Nov 2007 6:50 am

Rick Abbott wrote: I believe this to be my final post on this forum.

You going to let a few rude folks run you off???

I generally find that the folks who "announce" that they are leaving really don't want to leave at all. They just want to vent. So you have vented. Now if you leave this forum, you will be totally out on your own to learn how to play an instrument that you will need advice and info on. Reminds me of the old saying "The operation was a success, but the patient died".

I did not read this post about Garcia. Just the last page to see what it had spiraled down to. There will always be posts by people who sit at home and fester about this and that and one of the only outlets they have is to try to hoodwink the forum into thinking they have something worthwhile to say. You have to weed through a lot of crap here to get some worthwhile info, but if you take the time to do so you will find some valuable stuff.

IF you will do some searches through the previous years of the forum you can sometimes find the answer to a question without having to step out from behind the tree placing yourself in the line of fire!

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 16 Nov 2007 8:19 am

Back to this thread: I don't have time to run a Forum search right now - have to leave for work in a few minutes, but has anyone started a thread along the lines of: "Worst Examples Of Pedal Steel Playing On You
Tube."

I've seen some pretty mediocre stuff on there by steel players, a lot of it exacerbated by poor sound and poor camera work.

I don't know why Garcia should be singled out.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 16 Nov 2007 9:10 am

Bill Hatcher wrote:
Rick Abbott wrote: I believe this to be my final post on this forum.

IF you will do some searches through the previous years of the forum you can sometimes find the answer to a question without having to step out from behind the tree placing yourself in the line of fire!

Bill is SO right. Ignore the Garcia threads, the clothing threads, the "classic country" threads, and you'll find some good stuff here. Sometimes, somebody'll say something funny

.

Greg Simmons · Post by **Greg Simmons** » 16 Nov 2007 9:12 am

hey, I wonder if some of youse guys might want to check out the forum's new streamlined, less complicated menu

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 16 Nov 2007 9:28 am

Don't know why, but most standard 6 string guitar players are fascinated with fooling aournd with a pedal steel guitar. Their approach is to try and transpose what they know on their 6 string guitar to a pedal steel guitar. A real steel guitar player can easily tell the difference between a REAL pedal steel guitar player, and a standard 6 string guitar player who is fooling around on pedal steel.
There is nothing wrong with a standard 6 string guitar player fooling around with a pedal steel. The important thing to remember is to have fun. It takes all the fun out when you start condemning and judging what others do with their music. What Jerry Garcia played on steel was commercial, and sold to the public, and that is all that matters. It would be difficult for a REAL steel player to try and copy what Jerry played. The reason being Jerry took a standard 6 string guitar players approach to the pedal steel. In most cases it won't work, but it worked for Jerry, and people liked it. As for me I would rather listen to a REAL steel player.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 16 Nov 2007 9:35 am

He had that world -hit 'teach your children' and we all didn't.
Who is qualifyin' who?

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 16 Nov 2007 9:48 am

"What Jerry Garcia played on steel was commercial..."

Now 'dems some Fightin' Words!!!:)

I'm still lovin' "The Wheel"!
Note the 'pre-delay' on his reverb (especialy noticable on the outro solo).
I have this parameter on my LXP-1 (wish it were longer).
Anyone else use pre-delay on their 'verb?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ItqmNq ... ed&search=

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 16 Nov 2007 10:06 am

James Morehead wrote:As a side man, your supposed to make the singer sound good.

I think in this case that's asking for too much.

But if you want to hear how good the song itself can sound, listen to Sandy Denny with Sneaky Pete, recorded before this version.

And I aspire to Jerry's playing on 'The Wheel.'

Maybe we should move onto a comparison of JG vs. ET?

Welcome, Rick. You remind me of me.

Duane Reese · Post by **Duane Reese** » 16 Nov 2007 10:30 am

Greg Simmons wrote:hey, I wonder if some of youse guys might want to check out the forum's new streamlined, less complicated menu

Boy if that isn't elitist flame bate...

Actually, when you look at the initial topic, it's clear that this thread was just asking for it right off the bat. On one hand, the playing sounded bad, but on the other hand, it was Jerry Garcia, so it was bound to stir up controversy (the unnecessary, irreconcilable kind).

The sooner everyone realizes it, the sooner this will wind down.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 16 Nov 2007 10:44 am

Here is a picture of me and my best friend when we were 15 of from inside fold of the "Steel Your Face" album. I always wished I could have seen Jerry playing steel live. I snuck backstage and saw him practicing pedal steel one time. I'm the guy wearing glasses in the lower right of the pic.

Greg Simmons · Post by **Greg Simmons** » 16 Nov 2007 11:08 am

Boy if that isn't elitist flame bate...

actually it's meant to be humorous...

note

the

I guess these nuances are lost in the realm of electrons

Duane Reese · Post by **Duane Reese** » 16 Nov 2007 11:25 am

Thank you for clearing that up, Greg.

As these messages are text-only, most all parts of the message that are expressed through facial expression, tone of voice, body language, etc. are lost. Even the laughing emocon can be taken different ways.

Now let's all forget this controversial topic, and play some steel, like we should be doing...

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 16 Nov 2007 11:28 am

Bob, I thought that was you.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 16 Nov 2007 11:58 am

Keith Hilton wrote:

As for me I would rather listen to a REAL steel player.

Whoa!! That is an interesting statement.

Would you care to elaborate on what a REAL steel player is.