Why did Jerry quit playing steel?

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 11 Nov 2007 3:58 pm

Some of you guys get too worked up over the "my daddy can beat your daddy up" mentality. Jerry never claimed to be an acomplished steel player but he did add a certain style (his)to the songs he played on. This particular example is definitely not one of his better attempts though. C,mon guys, lighten up a bit.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 11 Nov 2007 4:11 pm

Well, Andy, speaking for myself, all I did was to make a flippant observation about some lame playing and singing. If I'd been busier, and not just killing time, I wouldn't have bothered.

I really couldn't care less, I never cared for Garcia's playing or Grateful Dead but, 'live and let live', I say, so I don't feel I have to 'lighten up'.

Hopefully, though, you didn't mean me...

RR

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 11 Nov 2007 4:21 pm

"Why did Jerry quit playing steel?"

Because, according to the guitar world and Dead Heads he was already the greatest steeler that ever lived or ever will. What more was there for him to accomplish.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 11 Nov 2007 4:24 pm

Sorry, double post. Ain't worth repeating.

Garry Vanderlinde · Post by **Garry Vanderlinde** » 11 Nov 2007 4:40 pm

I am a fan of Jerry’s. It's really sad that he got so hooked on drugs that it eventually killed him

. “The Wheel” is one of my favorite tunes and the steel playing in it is very inspirational to me as are many of his recordings. I also like his banjo playing.

I had heard that he only played steel for a short while. His “steel phase” a documentary called it. He seemed to stick mainly to his 6-string playing most of his career. I thought that experiences like this could have been the cause.

The playing on this was so bad by posting it, others could see how it’s possible for even a great musician to have a bad day and not be so down on themselves when it happens to them. Even get a laugh out of it

. Man, that “deer in the head-lights” look he has at the beginning of the solo is something I’ve experienced many times

.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 11 Nov 2007 5:18 pm

Folks, I caught considerable flak on another thread for commenting negatively about this same clip a little while ago. Not having any sense, though, let me try commenting again...

David Doggett wrote:

according to the guitar world and Dead Heads he was already the greatest steeler that ever lived or ever will.

Is what David D. says really true? I think the Deadheads and Jerry G. aficionados value something about Garcia other than perceived technical prowess on steel. I don't think they know, or care, where he stands in the "hierarchy" of steel guitar players. I might be wrong, but I seriously doubt ANYONE regards him as the greatest MASTER of the steel, in the "command of the instrument" sense.

I think they see the "spiritual" or "emotional" "content" of his playing, for want of a better term, as the thing of importance, and they feel it is special.

A valid point of view that I don't happen to share.*

But that's no different from the fact that, for example, we all don't fall in love with the same person.

That said, I don't see how anyone can defend THIS CLIP on any basis. If you feel he made countless great contributions during his life, fine--but THIS doesn't happen to be one of them, surely!

*EDIT (clarification): I do feel, IN GENERAL, that the "spiritual" or "emotional" "content" of music is the thing of importance.

Joe Smith · Post by **Joe Smith** » 11 Nov 2007 5:44 pm

That's the best dang low brow music I ever heard.

scott murray · Post by **scott murray** » 11 Nov 2007 6:11 pm

thanks so much for posting this clip! and yes, I'm being serious. I probably never would have seen it otherwise.

it must have been a dream come true for a lot of Deadheads to get to hear Jerry on a pedal steel again. He was pretty much done with the instrument by 1975.

Jerry loved the steel, and he did say that he wished he had another lifetime to devote to just playing steel guitar. he appreciated the difficulty of the instrument and the great players that inspired him to play. Jerry chose guitar because he was better at it, and it was his bread and butter.

I am guessing that Dylan may have requested pedal steel on a couple tunes. Jerry probably knew better, but Dylan was probably his biggest idol and he sure as hell wasn't going to say no!

sure, his steel is a little out of tune. sure he's way out of practice. but believe it or not, tapes of this performance and others from the '87 Dylan tour really inspired me to play the instrument. there is still a sweetness and a tastefulness in his playing and he stays out of the singer's way for the most part.

for me, this clip has a charm and some real heart that is rare in a lot of music with or without steel.
I was QUITE moved by it. thanks again!

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 11 Nov 2007 9:10 pm

I knew someone would find something good to say about it!!!

A bit of celebrity status sure goes a long way...

And Roger, I daresay you don't have a friggin' clue.

It's not your kind of music. I do not comment negatively on music I am not familiar with. I'm not a big country fan, but I don't diss the music or the players. Celebrity status? As far as what?

You jumped right into the stereotype of "I'm a steel player - Garcia's a rock guitarist who thinks he can play steel." Remember - if you've ever bothered to pay attention - Garcia himself said he was a lousy steel player. He was a very humble man. Yes, there are some bad spots in that song - and some good ones as well, and I have no doubt most of the forum members couldn't play much better - and on a large stage backing someone like Dylan (whether they liked his music or not) most probably would be capable only of very quick changes due to knee levers...from the quivering,nervous legs.

That was horrible

And how many essentially amateur steelers would have done better?

Amazing as it may seem, some people just appreciate music that has heart and feeling and soul, not just technical perfection. In that clip, despite the flaws, I thought Garcia was doing EXACTLY what a sideman should do - complement, not overwhelm, the music. Flashy solos and technical precision are not what Dylan's music is about - listen to recordings with The Band and those are "loose" as well. I suppose you either get it - or you don't.

You don't.

If you want to listen to some more "horrible" music, I'll send you some John Lee Hooker, some live Sinatra from his latter days, early Janis Joplin, The Descendants..they'll assist you in maintaining your status above such abominations.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 11 Nov 2007 9:55 pm

Everyone can have an off day. Certainly this is not one of Dylan's best recordings. Maybe several of the band had an off day that day. As has been said, it's a bad copy. The video quality is terrible as is the audio. If the audio were balanced correctly it would sound better. Dylan seems to go out of his way most of the time to slur his way through his own compositions, and seems to delight in singing off key. Who can blame Garcia for going out of tune at times when faced with that ? I remember an event when Dylan and Hank Williams Jr. came on stage so drunk they were holding each other up and giggling at each other through the whole performance. For me, who have been a Dylan fan since his first album came out in 1961, I am disappointed the way he doesn't seem to put the effort into his work that he did then, when he was full of energy and talent. He seems to dislike his own early compositions and go out of his way to destroy them. Fortunately his loyal fans seem to be very tolerant.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 11 Nov 2007 10:09 pm

Rough crowd.

I've heard better, I've heard worse. The performance was in the moment and it was what it was: probably a joyful moment for everyone that was there.

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 11 Nov 2007 10:47 pm

I have to agree in most part with what Jim S-has posted here-What I'm wondering is how many Forum members (particularly those who diss Jerry's steel playing) have ever been to a live Greatful Dead concert? Has anyone heard of the album "Old and In The Way" with Jerry's (bluegrass style) banjo playing?-I wonder if somewhere there is a banjo players forum where Jerry generates as much contoversy for his (fine) banjo work as he does for his steel playing here on this Forum? I myself have been to several Good 'Ol Greatful Dead shows-while not my favorite of all bands it was truly an experience like nothing I have ever had to attend one-not for everyone I'll admit-I have a dear friend who is a "Deadhead"-Through our years of friendship we have often been exposed to each other's favorite music-My friend knows who Buddy Emmons,Lloyd Green,Weldon Myrick,and JayDee Maness are-and I know that he DOES NOT think Jerry is the "Greatest Steel Player Ever" He does consider Jerry his favorite guitar player and I don't dispute his Icon status among Rock Guitarists-I am glad that Jerry played pedal steel-His recording on CSNY-TYC undoubtedly exposed pedal steel to a whole new audience-and that is not a bad thing-regardless of the fact that some of that audience exhalted Jerry to among the "Greats" of pedal steel because of it-And I'll add just one more thing-Everone who has come to me in the last ten or fifteen years who wanted learn to play steel,purchase a pedal steel,or get a pedal steel set up has been firstly a guitar player who wanted to expand their musical horizons to another instrument-Like Jerry did-and we should be thankful for that regardless of how good or bad his steel playing became in his final performances with it-PW

Mike Winter · Post by **Mike Winter** » 11 Nov 2007 10:47 pm

What Pete and Jim said. So...another frickin' dead horse post. He had a bad night, so what? So have you...in your basement no doubt, not in front of a stadium crowd. We all know he wasn't a great steel player...he knew it as well. He still has the most recognizable steel intro, ride and outro in "Teach Your Children"...done in his prime, after playing only for a short time. It wasn't Buddy, Lloyd, or Jay Dee...it was Jerry. Hurts, don't it?

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 11 Nov 2007 11:57 pm

I watched some of the country music on RFD TV and you’d have an older man or woman singing and playing simple guitar and a basic drum kit and then the camera would pan over for the Pedal steel for the solo but not before the lead singer would point over and call out his name and tell the audience what a great steel player he was and then he would proceed to play Buddy’s lick #4 to Day’s lick #7 to Paul’s lick #10 to etc. and everyone would clap. Am I missing something here? They clapped for Jerry too.
Let’s assume the Steel player from above would have taken Jerry’s place for that G Dead song. He would have been out of place as a Trd in a punch bowl.

Henry Nagle · Post by **Henry Nagle** » 12 Nov 2007 12:01 am

To heck with the deadheads and the rock guitarists..... Garcia was not a proficient steel guitarist. He didn't claim to be.

I just hate to see people beat up on the guy. Show a little respect for the dead (no pun intended) - (that is pretty funny though)

He recorded some really nice stuff. This is not really nice stuff. Garcia didn't post it. There's plenty of bad steel playing on youtube.

Let's find some one else to pick on. Some of us have a soft spot for this guy!

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 12 Nov 2007 12:27 am

Hey, that clip sounds just like me. The singing AND the playing. But I can't blame it on drugs...

Joe Smith · Post by **Joe Smith** » 12 Nov 2007 5:27 am

I hope y'all know I was just kidding. I'm a low brow musician myself and proud of it.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 12 Nov 2007 5:33 am

Calm down, boys - it's only pop music, not World peace.

RR

Greg Simmons · Post by **Greg Simmons** » 12 Nov 2007 5:37 am

not World peace

ok, now John Lennon figures in the mix?

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 12 Nov 2007 7:46 am

I listened to it again, and there are really only a couple of moments in Jerry's playing that stand out as truly awful--but they're real doozies! Once past the shock of those on first listening, the rest is as many have stated--playing by a well-meaning player of self-confessed limited technical ability who's out of practice.

Given that the "arrangement" is obviously off-the-cuff, I'm surprised at the band for letting Jerry hang there at the worst moment at the end. If someone in a band I was in had a moment like that, my instinct would be to jump back in and keep going a little longer, maybe do another chorus to give him a chance to redeem himself.

Willis Vanderberg · Post by **Willis Vanderberg** » 12 Nov 2007 8:36 am

Here is a little background on my friend Roger Rettig.He is not only an accomplished steel picker, he also plays six string and banjo. He is the only one I know, personally, who makes a living playing steel guitar. He plays broadway productions, pop, old standards and just about every kind of music you could think of.I think country would be pretty far down the list for him ,although he plays it very well.I know he is much in demand for the Always Patsy Cline shows and has done it more times than any other picker. He is also willing to share his knowledge and has been very helpful to my playing. It seems in my 74 year old mind that a lot of guitar picking is so much noise, distorsion,full of every effect known to man that it really turns me off. I guess I would call it too loud and too abusive to my ears.
Fortunately I learned early on how to use the off switch .

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 12 Nov 2007 8:37 am

Yet another Garcia/pedal steel thread?

Unbelievable. The man has been dead for over 12 years!

These Garcia threads remind me a little bit of what happens every year around World Series time: I'll run across at least one person who goes into the "I root for the National League team, because in the American League they have the Designated Hitter rule, which isn't real baseball to me - it takes some of the strategy out of the game for the manager."

Gee. No kidding? I guess that hadn't occurred to me in the what is it - 33 years since they instituted the rule?

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 12 Nov 2007 8:43 am

So, what did y'all think of Dylan's guitar playing?
Garcia's playing on "Teach" was one of the tunes that got me to wantin' to play steel.I think a lot of people, deep down, couldn't care one way or the other about Jerry's playing---They resent Jerry's fame. Jerry's guitar playing was astounding, at times. And I'd say that, along with Rusty Young, Buddy Cage, Bobby Black, and of course, Sneaky Pete, Jerry got a LOT of my generation started on pedal steel. It's a given now, to me, that there'll NEVER be another Buddy Emmons---But it took Jerry to teach me that.

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 12 Nov 2007 10:34 am

I was in high school when I was inspired by Jerry's playin on Teach Your Children and had I not been, I might not know about all the steel guitar greats that I have since come to love.

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 12 Nov 2007 11:22 am

His solo certainly got off to a bad start and recovery was difficult. I still heard really sweet classic Garcia fills and accompaniment.
All things considered, drugs, age, coma, big act, rusty......he gets a pass from me