Help Identify this lap steel

Duane Becker · From: Elk,Wa 99009 USA

This lap steel was my dads and he played it in bands in the 1940's. So I know its pretty old. As you can see its dirty and I want to clean it up and restore it. The electronics and pickup are missing so I'm gonna have to hopefully find a replacement. For starters, anyone know what kind of steel this is???

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Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Looks home made to me.
The fret work appears inconsistent.

Denny Turner · From: Oahu, Hawaii USA

If there is no brand on the headstock then I suspect it might be a jobber by Harmony or Regal (and even some Regal jobbers were apparantly acquired in-whole or in-part from Harmony). The pickup cavity, bridge and tailpiece are reminiscent of Regal congigurations (see link below), ...as is the body shape although that body shape was quite popular among many Steel companies in the late 1930's and early 1940's and was carried over thereafter by some Manufacturers, ....as was that Harmony / Rowe-DeArmond pickup assembly also.

I am GUESSING that an internet search for "regal lap steel" would be the most likely syntax to find some pics and info about the Steel you posted.

I'm almost certain the pickup cavity is for the Harmony / Rowe-DeArmond predecessor to the Goldentone (aka Goldtone) pickup assembly (look at the mounting holes and dirt "shadow") (and see link below); That pickup is sometimes called a "hershey bar" or "motel soap bar" pickup (which I've called them for many years); GREAT tone, by the way ...imho; Highly dynamic and compressed tones that they and their next generation Goldtone pickups are famous for. They sound is not inherently as fat and don't put out quite as much voltage as most other larger / fatter / taller pickups straight out of the guitar, which is often the case with some great sounding highly dynamic pickups, ...but that's what the volume and tone controls on an amp are for (seems like too many folks forget in pickup discussions).

Here's a Regal with the Harmony / Rowe-DeArmond pickup, ....which looks like the very pickup, bridge and tailpiece that the one you are asking about once had; And notice the quite similar body shape.
http://www.dennysguitars.homestead.com/RegalLapOrnateNM1.html
Also notice there that the headstock curve departing the nut is quite gentle on many Regals, but not always (Recording King shown next was a jobber brand for Montgomery Wards):
http://www.dennysguitars.homestead.com/RegalLapSteel1.html

Fo'Bro Billy Lee Frazer specializes in upgrading old Harmony guitars to more-modern standards and might very well have one of those Goldtone / Goldentone predecessor pickups, ...maybe even the whole plate assembly ...although the plate assembly is very simple and straight forward to make.
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Duane Becker · From: Elk,Wa 99009 USA

Thanks guys and especially Denny. Here is a picture that I have in the family album on the lap steel in 1947.

Denny Turner · From: Oahu, Hawaii USA

Well, that's definitely not the Rowe-DeArmond pickup I suspected would have been on that Steel. I can't identify the pickup assembly although the pickup looks somewhat similar to some Nationals of that period but nothing else looks National. Here's a rather similar Harmony at Scotty's Music, but enough differences to suggest it's not the same year if yours is a Harmony or Harmony jobber; But the tailpiece on this Harmony is VERY common on Harmonys of that period, where yours is like Regals of that period:

I am GUESSING that the vintage of your Steel is late 1930's, or early 1940's. Notice in the picture you date 1947 and in the more-current picture, that fingerpick tips have worn right down to bare wood on the treble bout ...common from Players tapping the top with finger picks in time to the music while holding the strings quiet when not playing during a song. That much fingerpick marks makes me suspect mid to late 1930's as it's vintage.

I have searched the many pictures I have and can't find anything to strongly suggest the make of yours.

I am betting that some Fo'Bro will recognize that pickup assembly or the entire Steel here pretty soon.

Where's Da Shadow when we need him ? !
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John Dahms · From: Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA

That pickup looks like the kind used on the Supertone models (Chicago built, Harmony or Regal or other) sold by Sears in the late 30s.
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Denny Turner · From: Oahu, Hawaii USA

Well I think I finally found your Steel's pickup on an identifiable brand. Looks like this is it on a Harmony (year unknown ...but likely pre-1941):

Notice the similarities with the one on Scotty's site previously referenced in this discussion: Body shape, "U" "channeled" tailpiece, same or similar fingerboard, and it also looks like Scotty's and the above Harmony and yours has a bridge that looks like it might be a lip extension of the back of the same kind of pickup mounting plate. Actually this Harmony looks like it could be the same year and model but with the pickup cover removed, ...or only 1 year or-so difference in pickup configuration. Pretty strong indication yours might be Harmony, ...were it not for yours' different tailpiece and different and more-ornate body design. OR yours could have had it's tailpiece changed by an owner.

Between the pickup and the tailpiece we can make a couple of SWAGs (scientific wild "apple" guesses) to narrow the odds of what your Steel might be:

Around 1940 Harmony started using P13 "speed bump / soap dish" pickups purchased from Gibson:

Rowe / DeArmond hershey bar aka motel soap bar pickups began to increasingly show up on lower-end Harmony Steels and guitars around the mid to late 1940's (often suggested as a result of scarce materials during WWII), ...while the P13 was still being used on higher-end instruments.

By the late 1950's Rowe had developed their own higher end pickups, including a fancier version of the hershey bar they renamed Goldentone, the P13's were no longer used, and Harmony sported an assortment of Rowe / DeArmond pickups thereafter (I'm not sure if Harmony followed the low-market trend of some jobbing from Japan near the end of Harmony's existance).

But that doesn't answer whether some other Manufacturer used yours' pickup after 1940 or so, ...although I think the chances are good that they didn't because that pickup seems rather obscure and popular pickups had settled down into rather similar designs with a few exceptions.

So it seems safe to suspect your Steel most likely pre-dates 1941.

Regarding the tailpiece (and assuming it's original): Although the tailpiece on yours is a machined metal block, and the Harmony's from that era we've seen in this discussion have the metal plate bent into a "channeled" "U" shape (also on some Epiphones of that period); A number of Steel manufacturers made some of their parts and bought some parts from other manufacturers, ...so it's not unusual to see certain parts from one manufacturer on another manufacturer's Steels, ...particularly Harmony supplied parts. But for odds in finding what Manufacture your Steel is, I reiterate that your tailpiece is very common on Regals ...and if on some jobbers I'll bet they trace back to Regal. Harmony developed a similar molded metal block tailpiece for Steels but it was rounded on top tapering downward to the rear, not a flat top rectangular block like yours / Regals.

Also notice that the 1947 pic of yours appears to have a distinct headstock decor on it's face; More evidence some Fo'Bro might take notice and recognize. Decorative headstocks were common on some Sears' steels (step-up marketing), lending some indication that it might be a Sears Supertone (Sear's brand before Silvertone).

A 1937-38 Sears catalog I referenced showed 3 different Valco Steels; But that might not have been the only Make they offered in their fuller catalogue. A couple of early 1940's Sears catalogs sported Harmony's with the P13 pickup. I don't recall ever seeing a Sears Silvertone Steel made by anyone but Harmony and Valco (Supro). I don't recall seeing Regal Steels from Sears (although Sears did have resonator guitars at least from the 1930's thru 1950's ...which might suggest a Regal Steel connection / offering might have existed at one time or another).

So for good odds in searching for your Steels vintage, I think it reasonably fair to suspect that your Steel's pickup pre-dates 1941, ....and that it's tailpiece suggests it likely has a Regal origin; Although other factors also suggest your Steel to be of Harmony origin. Were it not for the tailpiece I'd say it was a Harmony.

But this is all just sorting odds in searching for your Steel's make; Yours could very well be some other Manufacture that used parts I am comparing.
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Michael Lee Allen · From: Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois

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Duane Becker · From: Elk,Wa 99009 USA

Denny I think you nailed the pickup assembly with the Harmony picture. Recently I got the lap steel from my mom. I havent seen it in about 35 years and I cant remember exactly what it looked like. So I'm just going off the pictue that we have from 1947 that I posted. So maybe for starters I'll look for an old Harmony lap, and see if I can use it for parts.

Denny Turner · From: Oahu, Hawaii USA

Duane,

I'm probably saying things you already know; But just in case:

If you want to rebuild your Steel to original or close to original condition, then there is a decent chance that good pickup building guys might have or run across or have suggestions to help you find at least an original pickup assembly even it it's a carcass to rebuild. Over the years they wind up with allot of old stuff they usually don't throw away, ...and certainly give you good advice about trying to find what you're looking for. They would also be the prime candidates to rebuild an original assembly to original or original-equivalent specs. They would also be the experts to help you decide on a replacement pickup to suit your desires and even help you decide what you desire; And even possibly make, or help you or your guitar tech make a faux-original plate and cover for another pickup if an original can't be found or you decide on a sound you'd desire from what they can provide or you / they acquire.

Short of happening to run into a suitable parts Steel for sale; Your next best bet might be to set up an automatic / periodic advanced-search on ebay to be emailed to you. It would take a poop-load of sorting through allot of lap Steels in those emails due to the deliberate weakness (poorly selective broad scope) of ebay's search engine; But I can't think of a more likely place for a suitable parts Steel to show up. And remember that you can rebuild what's left of a parts Steel, not neccessarily to original condition, and recover most if not all of your money.

If your desire is for as close to original as possible but can't find it; I personally think it doesn't make allot of sense to imitate a faux assembly when so many other pickups, pots and circuitry is available.

You're lucky that the cavity in your Steel is big enough to support a whole bunch of pickups; And a pickup / pots / jack plate is not that difficult to fabricate.

Here's 3 of the top shelf pickup guys:

Jason Lollar
http://www.lollarguitars.com/Contact.htm

Lindy Fralin
http://www.fralinpickups.com/order.asp

Jerry Wallace
http://www.jerrywallacemusic.com/contact.htm
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