12th String Alternatives

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

I play a 12 string E9/B6 setup----semi-standard with minor alterations. I have chosen to have the same stringing on any and all my guitars to avoid damage to my brain.

I use the 12th string B less than any other string---by far. But I keep it in the setup for the one time every 6 years that I need to BooWah.

On my new Sho-Bud I am trying to create a semi-U tuning out of a mininum of pedals and levers and I will probably not have the BooWah pedal and therefore will hardly miss the B string (which never sounds like much of anything other than a dead string unless hidden in a 3 or 4 note chord). Since I do not want to change the string sequence of 9-10-11, I am wondering if there are any interesting out-of-sequence strings that I might stick on there in the 12th slot just for fun (as well as versatility, to maybe compensate for the lack of pedals & pulls in this setup).

b0b will lobby for a banjo 5th string and I'm all for it but I wonder if anyone else has an interesting idea.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Tune it to D. Lower it to C# on your F lever.

If you want to play with out-of-sequence, try a middle D instead.
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Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Good. It was one of my thoughts. The middle D. 8th string E will lower to D but I like the idea of another option. The low D is a good thought too.
F lever will be loaded already--three E>F pulls plus maybe 2nd string D>D# pull--I do this on my other guitars--not my primary D>D# which is on another lever but it is an efficient change on the F lever too. I don't know how many pulls this Bud will handle comfortably on a single lever.

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

Jon:

"F lever will be loaded already--three E>F pulls "

Do you find having 3 pulls on the F lever a bit stiff and how often do you use the 11th string E to F?

David Doggett · Posted 3 Nov 2007 10:10 am

The main way I use the lowest string on my E9/B6 uni is for the root of power chords. I use the A pedal minor chord position a lot in rock, blues and jazz. I couldn't live without that 12th string root.

But, if I were going to try something else with it, a middle D would be at the top of the list.

It's true the lowest strings aren't very useful in chords, except as the root, too muddy down there. But, in rock, blues and jazz, an extra scale or chromatic note would be useful in single string bass pattern picking, say a 9th or 7th. But the problem with getting those extra notes by changing the string tunings is that it really messes up the B6 mode down there. One way around that might be to have the E-lower lever that gives the B6 mode restore the normal B6 note, so your new alternative note would only be present in E9 mode.

Dean Parks · From: Sherman Oaks, California, USA

On my new 12, I tune the 12th string to low A. For blues etc, this makes the lowest 5 strings a pedals-down A chord with all the usual AB pedal action.

Also, release the B pedal for a nice major 7th chord. Add in the 7F# string for an added 6th, etc.

It's even floppier than the B, but lots of fun on the blues stuff, and, up the neck too. I get my D by raising 9B, which is good musically from that A-chord position.

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Len---it's funny. My first reaction to your question was "of course I use the E>F on the 11th string!" I paid attention to it tonight at a 3 hour band rehearsal and found that I didn't use it once. But it's sort of a niche band and I don't use the whole steel with them. I know that I use it but now that I've looked at it I would say that I could easily do without it with minimal impact to my playing. It's not a terribly stiff lever on either my Carter or my Fessenden with the 3 F's and the 2nd string raise. But I'm going to check out if I like difference with the tuning nut backed off enough that maybe I'll ditch the pull. I looked at a number of other Uni copeds and a lot of them don't pull the 11th. Interesting.

I will re-examine the low B and low A for rocking power chords. I would have been using them except for how much I dislike the feel of that flaccid string under my pick. And when the string caves in under the bar---it must ain't manly.
I also find it difficult to find the right touch with the bar--dead string when you just tickle it, dead string when you sink the bar into it----I rarely find the right feel.
I've just worked up an intro where, with a tricky delay/eq/phase/compression Pod patch I'm sort of doing a baritone guitar thing. But that 12th string just ruins the effect.
One good thing is that I don't care that much if I have any pulls on that string. This frees me up to just try different things there.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Or just take it off. I usually play Extended E9th, with E as my lowest string. I've never had anyone ask me for lower notes. Sometimes people are surprised that I can get down into the low guitar range. No one I've played with expects the steel player to play in the bass range.

I have a low C on my C6th neck, but I think I only use it when it's raised to D (the standard P5 change).
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David Doggett · Posted 3 Nov 2007 9:34 pm

I agree with b0b that in a group the low B on a uni or C on C6 is not very useful. It just gets lost down in the mud of bass and drums. But when you play solo steel with little or no accompaniment, it can be very useful. For an example, listen to some of Bill Stafford's 14-string uni stuff. Interestingly, some Sacred Steelers with 10 or more strings like to play bass lines so much that they refuse to play with a bass player.

Olli Haavisto · From: Jarvenpaa,Finland

Speaking of solo steel (and Bill Stafford`s marvelous stuff), lowering the low B (on U12) to A with the A pedal opens up a lot of low end possibilities. I`ve had it on my new Williams for a couple of months now and love it. I added it as an afterthought when I ordered the guitar but I wouldn`t part with it now.
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Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Hey Jon, I played the E9/B6 Uni for a long time until I ditched it in favor of a semi universal which I've found to be my "permanent" set up. I've used it for 3 or 4 years now and it's basically an extended E9 with the 2nd and 9th strings tuned to C#.

Here's what I have now:

LKL....raises 2nd string to D# and lowers the 10th string to A# (Bb)

LKV....lowers the 5th string to A# (Bb)

LKR....raises strings 2 and 9 to D

P1...raises string 7 F# to G# and lowers string 12 E to C#

P2...(A pedal) raises strings 5 and 10 to C#

P3...(B pedal) raises strings 3, 6, and 11 G# to A

P4...raises string 5 B to C# and string 6 G# to A

P5...raises string 5 B to C# and string 6 G# to A#

P6...lowers string 7 F# to F and raises the string 11 E to F

P7...raises string 1 F# to G, raises string 9 C# to D, and lowers string 12 E to D.

P8....My "Mooney" pedal, it's used with the right foot and only raises the 4th string E to F#. I've been trying to do a lot more "West Coast" stuff lately and use this pedal and P7 (1st string raise) with my right foot. It's a lot of fun.....

RKL....raises strings 4 & 8 E to F

RKR....lowers strings 4 & 8 E to D# (Eb)

I'm very happy with this setup and don't see any future changes as it'll do anything I need it to do....Just wish I could get the chops out of my head to my hands...........JH in Va.
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Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

Jon....

"It's not a terribly stiff lever on either my Carter or my Fessenden with the 3 F's and the 2nd string raise."

You have 4 pulls on your F lever? What does the 2nd string raise to on that pull?

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Okay, then consider this: Tune the 12th string to low D and lower it to C# on the pedal that lowers string 7 to E# and raises string 11 to E#.

(YES, I SAID E#, NOT F)

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Len--I tune my 2nd string to open D natural. I raise to D# on RKR, lower to C# on RKL but I also raise to D# on the F lever. A little lightbulb lit up in head one day telling me that 99% of the time I want D#, not D natural when I'm raising E>F. It is not essential but it is efficient. No regrets on that one. Of course if I tuned the 2nd string to D# then this would not be in play.

Jerry--I've been aware of aspects of your setup. It has always interested me. My bottom line for now is that I don't want to mess with the basic elements of my B6. Even if I don't have large portions of it available on this Sho-Bud, I want it to sit under my hands the same as my other guitars. Therefor, no 9th string D, and no 9th string C#. Except for the 12th string, the stringing will be 'standard'. As with many setups, some comfort is compromised for musical practicality/efficiency, some musical aspects are compromised for comfort.
One thing I can attest to is that although I have a 4th string change E>F# on a lever (in addition to the C pedal), it isn't nearly the same as having it on a pedal like you've got it. I like being able to add that pull from an AB down situation but for a Mooney bounce, it's not even close (and I don't even try---I thought it would be my Mooney lever but now I know better).

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

E#. Santa Claus. Easter Bunny. Moon landings. Sheesh.

I may or may not add pedals to this guitar---I am really tempted to keep this as lightweight as possible. Get some aluminum legs, a keyboard case and have me a subway steel for urban commute gigs. Right now it sits as a 3+5 and does not have that pedal. One neat thing---most of what I do on that pedal I can do one fret down with AB down and B's lowered on LKV (a position that I use a lot---also BC + V).

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

Regarding the 12 string "boo wha" pedal. I use basically a Jeff Newman setup so that pedal is
#4 on my guitars.

I had the same "slack" and volume problem when using this pedal on the 12 string. I changed the string from a .068 to a .070 and it sounds and feels much better. Sometimes something simple can make a big difference. Smile

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

So the correct answer is: the low B (fresh .068) sounds so unexpectedly fine on this Sho-Bud that I'm keeping it. Go figure. Could be the single coil pickup that is making it so lively (I have very little experience with sc's on PSG) or just some sort of Bud magic. Why ask why.

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Jon,

Myself and many other U'ers (Mike Perlowin and Sam Gibson to name two) drop the the 12th to "A" with the "A" pedal (B). All this really gives you (thinking E9th) is a low "A" octave.

But on some songs [slower kinds-ballads], just brushing that low note to end a song, really is very filling, in spite of, uh, the bass player.

I'm actually playing around with it more and more as I'm still getting the hang of the Universal (10 years or so). It's wide open, man. Don't shut it out. It can be great. It does not necessarily have to be part of C6. It can fit with E9.

Chipper Smile

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Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Jon, at one point when I was using the E9/B6 universal I thought I'd take off some pedals so I dropped four of them but kept the basic tuning. What I did at that point was use a Keith/Scruggs b@njo tuner with stops on string 12 which was tuned to low B and lowered it to A with the tuner. The K/S banjo pegs will work on a ShoBud with no modifications at all, just take the regular peg out, stick in the Keith, tune 'er up and you're ready to go with an A note anytime you want it. You can even do it mid song if needed......JH in Va.
_________________
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

That is in intriguing idea.

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

In the past two or three years, I have gotten into singing & playing steel at the same time, I would really miss that low B note on the E9th/B6th tuning cause I use it a lot for playing rhythm, just gotta have it & need the BooWah too. Maybe you guys are jumping the gun on that low B. But do whatever pleases you, I always do!! I have the BooWah on pedal 3, 4,5,6 & 7 are the other 6th pedals. I only use A&B on E9th with the 4th E moving to F# on a lever.

Ernie Pollock Shocked

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

I also use the Boo Wha pedal without using string 12.
If you played a 6th chord with the knee lever in that lowers both E's and then moved up 3 frets with the Boo Wha pedal and play any of these strings 11,10,9,8,7,6 you get a 7th chord. Release the Boo Wha pedal then move up 2 frets and you are at the 4 chord.

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