Chords you'd like to BAN. /Those you LIKE.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 21 Oct 2007 10:14 am

Well, I guess this fits the forum section, but we'll see..

I'd like to BAN "Sus4" chords and most notably "sus4/Dom7th" chords that are commonly played by brainless guitar players. ESPECIALLY as a "First Chord".

That's the FIRST one.

Then "Dom7th" chords EXCEPT on the Dominant, or V chord.

The resultant 13th chord of a Dom7 being played against a 6th is not really a "13th" chord, but a 6add b7th chord that REALLY SUCKS. Kind of like the "minor/major" thing..

Same with Major 7ths.

My favorite?

Ninth chords.

At worst they are add a 2 note, at best they fit with a dom7th OR a Sixth as a 6add9.

As a "leading note" they seem to be the best, or "most safe". Safer than the sus4, 6th, or ma7th.

Any thoughts?

Just wondering. It's a discussion I've had on the bandstand more than I'd like to remember.

EJL/HFLE

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 21 Oct 2007 11:32 am

Let's ban dumb threads.

Archie Nicol · Post by **Archie Nicol** » 21 Oct 2007 11:38 am

Nice one, Don. Eric is gonna' love you!

Arch.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 21 Oct 2007 11:40 am

Just like dogs, there are no bad chords. Only bad owners who mistreat them.

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 21 Oct 2007 11:53 am

Eric,I'm a brainless guitarist but I like that little bunny rabbit thing that you've got goin' on.

Brian Herder · Post by **Brian Herder** » 21 Oct 2007 12:20 pm

I have to go with Jim on this one.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 21 Oct 2007 2:42 pm

My wife says she always plays the right chords but not necessarily in the right order !!
No such thing as "Bad" chords just chords Badly Placed or played !! :- Like using a subdominant seventh in a melodic Hawaiian tune ...

admin · Post by **b0b** » 21 Oct 2007 3:18 pm

I'd like to ban m7b5 chords, not because of how they sound, but because of how hard they are to find when you're trying to play from a chord chart.

Also, anyone who writes "C alt" on a chord chart should be shot.

Chords I like: 7#9 for one, add9 without a third for another. Also V7b9 in a minor key.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 21 Oct 2007 5:03 pm

any A/F chord because i can never make them sound right

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 21 Oct 2007 5:06 pm

Bob, If you're playing E9, engage your E to Eb knee lever and play strings 5, 6 and 8. In the open position this is a non-root Fm7b5. Very easy.

Michael Barone · Post by **Michael Barone** » 21 Oct 2007 6:23 pm

I like to use 7#9, 7b9 in a minor key, add9, like b0b said (I call it add2nd), and a 13th or 9th in an appropriate context. I think I’ve also seen add9 as sus2. Now, consider the add9 chord, with no third. I like to use this with new age and jazz on keyboards mostly, for specific applications, and steel also. But there is a time and place for it. It seems that every keyboardist I’ve met who has a 4 year degree feels compelled to pounce on this chord in EVERY song they play, regardless of tempo, genre, style. I can’t figure that out. What also bugs me are (the same) keyboardists who insist on substituting major seventh chords in EVERY ballad that they know, and I don’t mean passing chords.

A long time ago, as a gigging keyboardist in VFWs, Moose Lodge, etc. I learned from observing audience facial expressions that certain levels of dissonance are misunderstood, and the simplicity of a Floyd Cramer riff usually brings a smile.

Mike

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 21 Oct 2007 7:06 pm

Banning chords ? It reminds me of the Morality Police who roam some Islamic regions, slapping people on the back of the head who are caught drinking, wenching or swearing.

Maybe that's what we need... Chord Police, who remind musicians with a slap on the back of the head if they play a bum chord.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 21 Oct 2007 7:30 pm

I think there are many situations where chords that are more acceptably used to either 'cue band members' or play a neutral note in an unsure section work well.

Sus4 and 9th chords or notes work the best in my experience. They can fit with most any upcoming chord should "the band" decide to "improvise", or use a verse that starts on the I as an instrumental instead of the chorus that starts as a IV or V like you are "expecting".

The Ninth note for example can turn into the 6 of a V chord, the 5th of a V cord the root of the II, the m7 of the III, the sus4 of the IV, and maybe a couple others.

It's very possible that as in an "important" Guitar Lesson Book that I can dig out, most "country players" don't know what a Lydian mode is, nor can they see why they shouldn't play a 6th or a 7th chord whenever they want to.

Guess "they just make the band sound bigger" huh...

Not trying to invite or encourage Musical Sharia by any means.

Play what makes you happy.

You're a good person, doggone it.

EJL/HFLE

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 21 Oct 2007 8:09 pm

Any chord by my guitar player, ANY, the dead string playing tone deaf son of a...

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 21 Oct 2007 8:25 pm

Oh yeah, I definitely agree with Jim on this - no bad chords, just bad owners. But I think there should be a law against playing a 7#9 on the I in "Today I Started Loving You Again" - in fact, I have had to invoke that law once or twice. Great chord in the right context, but I think it does sometimes get overused by aspiring players trying to make a simple song "more sophisticated" or "funky".

I also think that maj7 tends not to work so well on the I of a greasy, gutbucket blues shuffle either. Just too new-age-sensitive-guy for the down-home blues, to me anyway.

But de gustibus non disputandum. Still - if someone's gonna break those kind of laws, I'd like them to tell me beforehand so I can take a break on those tunes.

Dom Franco · Post by **Dom Franco** » 21 Oct 2007 9:06 pm

I would like to ban inexperienced guitar players who play a 3 finger "C" chord and slam the low E note (Sixth string) it sound's awful. I always teach my guitar students the 4 finger "C" Chord (G Bass 3rd fret sixth string) Or at least avoid the sixth string!

Ditto for the Partial "F" Chord, "D" chord that the same bozos play the low "E" on! Dad nab it it sounds bad! OK the Partial Bm chord etc. All the open chords with strings that should be avoided but are played anyway... YUCK....

Please forgive me while I vent.

Dom Franco

admin · Post by **b0b** » 21 Oct 2007 9:47 pm

Don McClellan wrote:Bob, If you're playing E9, engage your E to Eb knee lever and play strings 5, 6 and 8. In the open position this is a non-root Fm7b5. Very easy.

Easy to play, hard to find. It's always at a fret that's not normally in the key.

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 21 Oct 2007 10:12 pm

Basically, Jim Cohen is absolutely right. But I could live with a ban on some unnecessary chords. Like, trying to make a straightforward 3, 4 or 5 chord country song "interesting" by throwing in some jazzy chords. Among many examples, I've heard Hank's "I can't help it" ruined that way.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 21 Oct 2007 11:24 pm

Per Berner wrote:Basically, Jim Cohen is absolutely right. But I could live with a ban on some unnecessary chords. Like, trying to make a straightforward 3, 4 or 5 chord country song "interesting" by throwing in some jazzy chords. Among many examples, I've heard Hank's "I can't help it" ruined that way.

I totally agree. I once heard somebody play "Honky Tonk Woman" with Major 7 chords. The guy actually thought he was "improving" the song.

There's a time and place for everything, but throwing in jazz chords where they don't belong (in any kind of music, not just country) is just plain wrong.

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 22 Oct 2007 1:44 am

Well said Jimbeaux and Don .....all chords are usable...in the right context!!

Micky Byrne United Kingdom www.mickybyrne.com

Post by **Joey Ace** » 22 Oct 2007 4:52 am

Didn't the Catholic church ban the flatted third interval in the middle ages?

The story is it was believed to be the devil's interval.

I don't know if this is true, or urban legend, but you
won't find any bluesmen in that era.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 22 Oct 2007 5:33 am

Joey, I think it was the flatted 5th (tritone) that was banned. And I think it is indeed true. The flatted third (minor) was much more acceptable. Witness all of the old Hebraic melodies (not that the Catholics were all that fond of the Hebrews, mind you...)

Post by **Joey Ace** » 22 Oct 2007 5:49 am

ahhh, that would explain the lack of piano bars back then...

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 22 Oct 2007 6:02 am

Yes, the minor third was accepted, but to a degree : you couldn`t end a piece with a minor chord. That`s why so many medieval compositions in a minor key end with a major chord of the same key (Picardian chord). (eg Em>E)

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 22 Oct 2007 7:18 am

Olli Haavisto wrote:Yes, the minor third was accepted, but to a degree : you couldn`t end a piece with a minor chord. That`s why so many medieval compositions in a minor key end with a major chord of the same key (Picardian chord). (eg Em>E)

I guess that's the equivalent of the hero kissing the girl at the end of all those 50's giant insect movies I likes to watch when I was a kid.

Wasn't there some movie executive who issued a directive that none of his movies could have any minor chords in their soundtracks?

The Steel Guitar Forum

Chords you'd like to BAN. /Those you LIKE.

Chords you'd like to BAN. /Those you LIKE.

I know this is not a pedal steel chord but....

Chord types define the song's style / vibe.