Do we need Composer's and Publisher's copyright permision

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Having been requested by a forum member to remove my post containing Marty Robbins/Jerry Byrd videos because I hadn't obtained the artist's permission, I got to thinking about the legality of any of the posts of music or video with regard to the copyright on the SONG/TUNE.
This is a publicly viewable forum, so presumably the for educational purposes only doesn't apply as it isn't a "Viewable by members only' forum.

Come on legal eagles, what's the low down !!
Do I have to delete all my videos posted on YouTube and presumably everyone else has to do likewise or can we pay the music publishers some for of license fee to post copyright songs ?

We've all signed up with this Forum Rule agreed :-

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

First of all, a link to a resource on another web site does not constitute "posting of copyrighted material", in my opinion. The difference is that you are posting a reference here on the Forum, not the actual video. It's like a footnote in a book.

Whether your YouTube videos are in violation of copyright law is one for YouTube's lawyers to decide. Here in the USA, a copyright owner has a period of time (I think it's 3 years) to complain about an infringement. The violation is usually handled in civil court (as a lawsuit) rather than criminal court. Criminal law enforcement typically focuses on the big, for-profit violators (shipments of DVDs from Asia, duplication shops, etc.). It's hard to get law enforcement interested in internet postings.

I'm not answering the poll because ultimately it's your decision. I think that your risk is relatively low. It's really a matter for your own conscience.
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

You're not going to be able to get Jerry Byrd's or Marty Robbins's permission now since they're no longer with us. Removing the posts would do a disservice to all their fans. There's no violation of this Forum's rules since you're only inserting pointers to something posted on a different site, and if you look at YouTube almost all of what is posted is inserted without permission.

It's one thing to illegally post a video of musicians currently trying to make a living, and so deprive them of their income; it's quite another thing to post a copy of a video made over 30 years ago which the current owners have no intention of ever releasing. Without your posts there is no way anyone would be able to view those videos of Jerry and Marty, which does no service to either of them.

You should get a medal for posting them.

Look at all those posts of people like Louis Jordan, Louis Prima, Duke Ellington, which are all now part of an archive and can be studied and enjoyed by anyone.

Then look at what has happened when the inheritors of the copyright have done disservice to the memory of their purported loved-one, like Buddy Holly's widow having his name removed from Buddy Holly Boulevard because they didn't pay her royalties.

Most of the old material is no longer protected by copyright, and, where it is, the income from royalties would not go to the artist or anyone else who had earned the money. Without the posting the material would be dead and forgotten.

You owe it to Jerry's and Marty's memory to leave the posts just where they are. I can't imagine why anyone who considers himself one of their fans could possibly find any reason to object. Do they want their works to be lost for ever ?

The Ancients believed that a person's spirit still lived as long as there was someone alive who remembered them, hence the Pyramids and all those old monuments.

LEAVE THEM POSTED !

Steinar Gregertsen · From: Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.

It wouldn't help much to get permission from the copyright owner of the songs since these clips are from a TV show and whoever owns those rights could still complain.

I'd say leave them up, their historical value is too high to be lost and I can't see the damage as long as they're not commercially available - the worst thing that can happen is that the copyright owner complains to YouTube and have them removed. Until then - leave them up.
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basilh · From: United Kingdom

Marty Robbin's own company owned the rights and produced the show independently, financed by Marty himself.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I bet that if you asked the owner’s permission, they’d give it to you with their blessing. Years ago, I wanted to use a copyrighted image for a business card logo, I called up and asked, the owners of the copyright, the publishers Simon and Schuster, and they unhesitatingly told me to go ahead. Since then I’ve had similar experiences with 2 other projects.

At no time did anybody ask for money. In all 3 cases, the people were just being cool.
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Bill Ferguson · From: Milton, FL USA

I am the one that contacted Basilh. I did not ask him to remove the video's from YouTube. All I asked was that he start a separate thread and please not to insert the links to his video's within my post of an ISGC video that I took myself.
Reason: I think it would be a dis-service to him because the TITLE of the post was for my video. Also as the thread gets older and longer, then people might slip past my video without knowing it.
If you sign up to be notified (a great feature bOb), then you never see the original post, only the last post entered.

I think Basilh should leave his video's on YouTube for all to enjoy. I know I have enjoyed them.

Bill Ferguson

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Glad to hear what Bill said, that sounds very reasonable to me...

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

David Doggett · Posted 16 Oct 2007 6:50 am

This raises some interesting questions. Many times the rights are not the sole property of the performer, but are shared or owned outright by a publishing company, record company, TV station or network, etc. Also, BMI and ASCAP may have them on register. So what happens when the artist passes away? Surely the company rights remain. What about the BMI and ASCAP registry? Are they still collecting fees, but not dispursing them?

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

Copyrights can be bought, sold, individually owned, jointly owned, inherited, etc. etc., just like almost any other type of property. A copyright automatically arises when any work is created. If there are no other agreements or contracts that apply, the original copyright is automatically owned by the creator or creators of the work. However, other agreements may apply, in which case the copyright would go to whomever the agreement specifies. For example, if you are a songwriter under contract to an entity to write songs, then the agreement may specify that you agree to immediately convey and/or assign the copyright to any song you write during the term of the agreement.

There are different levels and/or types of copyrights. Consider a song. There is the copyright in the song itself. An artist may record a version of the song, in which case there may be a copyright in the specific arrangement of the song and/or in the recording of the song.

Many times, for various reasons, songwriters choose not to retain ownership of the copyright in a song. Often, they form corporations that own the copyrights. Sometimes they sell the copyrights and retain no control over them. Sometimes they are tricked out of ownership.

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

There's an old saying, "Publish and be damned." Winking

basilh · From: United Kingdom

See this, it's the opening introduction to the Drifter Series..
Marty Robbins Inc. is apparently defunct..

click to play Introduction

Or a higher quality one here Click Here
Positive proof that Marty himself financed the TV shows..and then presumably owned the copyright that passed on to Ronnie Robbins, marty's son..
the business address aren't listed anymore, so does anyone know where RONNIE IS ?

THESE ARE OUT OF DATE I think ?

The "Marty Robbins Memorial Showcase", is a museum and gift shop. It is located at:
2613 McGavock Pike
Nashville, TN 37214
615-885-1515

The business office for Maripose Music, managed by Ronny Robbins (Marty's son ), is located at:
Marty Robbin's, Inc.
713 18th Ave. South
Nashville, TN 37203
615-327-3752

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Having a release, if one can be obtained, is always a warm fuzzy...

Here's a neat link...
http://www.dv.com/columns/columns_item.php?articleId=196603508

Be patient... It may take 30 to 60 seconds to load.

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Basil: Notice that no-one has voted to have you remove the material. The only non-affirmative votes have been for you to get the authorization of the performers, which is impossible.

If no-one can find out who owns the copyright, the chances of you being contacted regarding copyright infringement are almost zero.

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

I believe, but I'm not 100% positive, that if a work is registered at the US Copyright Office, you can research their records to find the owner. By law the owner of a registered work must provide the copyright office with current contact info.

If the work is not registered at the copyright office then infringement recourse by the copyright owner is limited to some degree.