Behind the bar pulls

[Mark Vinbury]

Here is amother clip from a different angle showing Martin's technique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwUF_jgi ... er&search=

[Janet Newsom]

Hi, I am a long time lurker and member who doesn't normally post. Martin is a friend of mine and he asked me to post his reply to the response's of his video. He will be joining the SGF shortly.
If you want to see another tune with lots of string pulls, check out 'Louise', 'Careless Love' and 'Amazing Grace'.
I hope it is OK for me to do this and apologize if I have done something wrong.
Jan

Martin's comment's:

I´m not a member of the Steel Guitar Forum yet, but I sure will be
soon. It`s a great place. Dobrojan was kind enough to do draw my
attention to your pages and she also post's the reply for me. I want
to thank you for your interest in the way I do the string pulls. I`ve
always loved that pedal steel effect played on a resonator guitar and worked a
lot to make the pulls sound right. Here is some correspondence about
that topic you might be interested to read. Thanks again!
cheers
Martin



DENNY WROTE :

Martin, thanks for posting your videos. I love your playing. I've
just about got "Amazing Grace" that you posted under Tablature. The
only problem I'm having is with the string bends. This is the first
song I've learned that uses bends. Any suggestions for learning
string bends? My ring finger doesn't want to cooperate.

Thanks, Denny



FORENSBRO WROTE :

Hey Denny,

MARTinGs' version of Amazing Grace was also the first tune I've
worked up with both a slant and bends (chokes). At first I was
getting no where with the bends but kept trying and over the course
of about a day I felt like I was making progress. By day three the
bends were sounding pretty good and I could produce them at will and
in tempo. To me the thumb is the critical factor because that's what
you are pulling against. As for the actual bending of the string with
the ring finger, I found it helpful to envision in my minds eye
(although blurry Laughing ), that I was both pulling the string back
and slightly up against the bar so as to not lose contact without any
undo downward pressue on the bar against the strings. Since you play
guitar you've got callouses and for me I found the best spot for the
string position in relation to the ring finger callous was on the
edge where there is no callous (my finger was sore for a few days).
Now I'm extending the callous and have trained my finger where to go.
I hope my novice explanation helps somewhat Smile .




MARTIN WROTE :

Denny:
Thank you for your nice comments. It makes me feel good to hear, that
you are working on the tabulature I posted.

Denny and Forensbro:
Everything Forensbro posted about string bending is absolutely
correct. Thanks to you Forensbro for explaining that pulling against
the thumb - and pulling the string slightly against the bar - thing.

In addition I`d recomend:

- Take a break playing string bends when your ring finger starts to
hurt ! Play a tune without string pulls instead !
- Start practising string pulls around the 12th fret, cause there is
less preassure against your ringfinger than doing the same pull in
the 2nd fret. (check it out)
- Practise to play a reverse string pull. That means: pick the 1st
and 2nd string in the bended position and than lower the second
string down.
- While pulling the string, your thumb rests at the side of the neck,
your ringfinger pulls the 2nd string, the pinky finger is actualy not
able to damp the strings behind the bar and there`s only the index
and middle finger left
over, to controll the steel bar. That`s a tough thing to do.

When I started playing the string pulls I thought I`d never get`em
right. At least that strong intention to create a pedal steel sound
on the 6 string squareneck kept me going. Just stick to it and
keep on practising the pulls.

[Steve Norman]

Thanks for the proxy post! I hope he joins soon, looking forwars to learning more from him

[Steve Norman]

uh..forward.
typing is hard,,lol

[Harrison Withers]

Hey I tried this last night and I can actually mechanically do it, Now I just need to figure how to make it not sound like a dying animal.

Harrison

[Denny Turner]

Mighty nice stuff in this discussion chain!

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When figuring out / using behind the bar pulls, the mode (aka chord / scale quality) box or voicing / position a person is at should also be considered. For example, in a 6th tuning (1 3 5 6 1 3) on a 6-string Steel, ...at the Maj7/9 chord position (upscale end of the Maj7 scale box): The first string 7 can be pulled up to the 1, ...or the 2nd string's 5 up to 6, ...or the 3rd string's 3 up to 4; Done effectively with adjoining strings' harmony; For example pulling the 1st string's 7 to 1 while playing the 2nd string's 5. Another lick in that Maj7 position is instead of slanting strings 3&2 notes 3 and 5 forward to 4 and 6, a pull can also be done straight bar by pulling the 2nd string up to 6 while moving the bar, instead of a slant; Pretty cool in moving up or down scale between I, IV and V boxes. Likewise in any mode / scale / chord position, pulling the 3, 5, or 7 also works similarly. Also remember that one of the signatures of the pedal sound is not only pulling a note but also releasing a pulled note before or after expressing notes by moving the bar.

Another pedal sounding trick exists in twisting the bar (the tip and heel moving at different rates or in opposite directions) to make harmony notes resolve at different timing rates when moving in and out of any slants; And bar twists themselves at one position moving harmony notes in different upscale / downscale directions, such as combining this movement (Maj7 box): Twist the 1st string up one fret to note 1 while twisting the 3rd string down 1 fret to note 5 ....such as in a two quarter-note-timing expression of resolving V to I in an intro or ending a song; And the same lick exists down at the down-scale end of the box on strings 4 and 6 ...moving note 7 to 1 on the 4th string while moving 4 to 3 on the 1st string). Between behind the bar pulls and bar twists, pretty good simple early-1950's pedal sounds can be achieved.

A good behind bar pulling exercise for the abovesaid tuning is to mimick the Steel on 'Fraternity of Man's' 'Don't Bogart Me (that joint)' using the abovesaid Maj7 position's 1st and 2nd strings, pulling the 1st string up a half step. The intro's first 5 or-so licks start at the tonic Major, walking down 2 half steps winding up with the pull expressing it's same voicing relative to the IV chord (in the IV6 chord position), ...and of course moving it back up 1 whole step voices the 5 chord (V6 chord position) with the same lick that voiced the I chord ....all within 2 frets; Same lick but different voicing sounds relative to I and IV / V. Moving the behind-bar pulls up and down the neck between the I, IV and V boxes of both the Dom7 and the Maj7 positions really turns on the light of behind the bar pedal effects.

Once that 1st and 2nd strings interchangeable I / IV / V relationships in Maj7 / 6th chord-scale boxes are realized, then other behind the bar pulls on other notes becomes quite obvious in their root-tonal interchangeability for I, IV, V expressions.

[Andy Volk]

Martin, your playing is terrific! It's always very smooth and musical. I can hear all the hard work you must have put in.

String pulling is a very cool technique. In my book, Billy Robinson is the master of it on electric steel and Stacy Phillips is the guru for acoustic string pulling. I'm no master of it exactly but I do use pulls quite a bit in my playing.

Here is a version of Bud's Bounce I worked out a few years ago using slants and string pulls in E major tuning:

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum8/HTML/001097.html

[Denny Turner]

Here is a version of Bud's Bounce....

Yee hah.... gotta love it; Thanks.

[Steve Norman]

Andy is there an mp3 or vid of you playing that any where? (Buds Bounce)

[Andy Volk]

Nope, but maybe I'll see if I can still play it and do one. I'll have to get my pulling finger in fighting shape first! Haven't played that one for quite a while.

[Steve Norman]

get that finger in the gym! Looking foward to hearing it!
Steve

[Denny Turner]

....maybe I'll see if I can still play it and do one....

I'm betting your kind modesty won't have too much problem at all recreating the song to audio!


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After having the time to read / examine this discussion chain more closely; A few things come to mind:

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First is to throw my hat into the ring of thanking Martin for his you-tube postings and for his forwarded text posting; Very good pictures & insights into very good technique (and most enjoyable music).

(And by the way, I am NOT the Denny referred to in Martin's text).

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For us analysis inflicted folks: I found it most interesting to see such clear pictures of (Martin) playing inside the scale / chord / mode boxes (and having to reach outside in the absence of a 6th note in the tuning ...and for voicings or convenient positions not in the boxes). Martin's use of a single behind the bar pull theme in each song is also an excellent opportunity to see and analyze moving between same-mode boxes corresponding to the songs' I, IV, V chord changes; As well as analyzing how the congruent Major scales notes in a box is lost in the open position where half the box & notes of the scale are lower than the neck-nut and have to be found extended non-congruently upscale from the nut. (The minor scales / chords box at the nut extends to the 2nd fret). I mention chord changes because putting techniques such as behind-bar pulls into context with a songs' melody and chord tone movements (which Martin does so well) is what makes techniques pleasantly and cleverly musical; Otherwise a technique anchored to a position or scale / chord step can get monotonous. Martin's videos are excellent clear-picture lessons in analyzing WHERE his bar is at for each chord change and WHY; The results being that there are indeed 2-fret-span boxes along the fretboard that contain the most common scale / chord qualities used in Euro-American (aka Western) music, ....all stacked up quite congruently and conveniently for both scale and chord use . ------- It's also interesting (to me anyway) to see the times that Martin remains in one box / position while the chord changes; And Martins work inside and outside of boxes even forms an armature of notes position (around which passing and incidental notes are played) that often remains in the same position through chord changes; Illustrating that notes in most Western songs / compositions have a strong Maj7, Dom7 and Sus4 relationship in the notes and chords of Major key I, IV, V songs / compositions, ...which by by way have quite similar strong relationships in minor key compositions, ...and both are interchangeable with each other in substitution; For instance, IM7 and V7 being the very same notes thus in the very same box, as well as Im7 and IV7 being the very same, ...and 7 scale / chord qualities being the same notes in each box depending upon the root note of each quality therein. Understanding these relationships goes a long way in understanding why and how a single lick's positioning & movement can sound so effectively different when moving inventively with the tone movement of melody and chord changes. ------- Now I don't know if Martin is conciously using those concepts, ...and it really doesn't matter; Some folks prefer, learn and play by rote repetition ...while others prefer, learn and play by theory analysis with allot of rote licks combined; It's the end results that count in either case.

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As usual I had to go back and edit some fuzzy statements in my 18 Oct 2007 9:21 am posting here. I smoothed out a few bumps that are now easier to visualize & mentally hear or go find on an instrument.

Forgive me if I have to come back and edit brain-farts in this posting too.

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Here is a short, basic, number system music theory refresher for folks that might desire it to better understand some of the things presented in this (and other) discussion chains.

Here's a different view of scale / chord / mode boxes. Different views are most often a good thang.