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Topic: Playing with a dragging drummer |
Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 3:53 am |
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| Anyone ever play with a drummer who drags his snare hits behind the bass? Drives me crazy. I was just watching a youtube clip of a guy dragging his snare at a steel show. Thank goodness the bass player keeps pace. If he matched the drummer he'd be constantly slowing down. I played with a very good technical drummer who would start doing this half way between the second set after a few drinks. When we told him about it he was in complete denial. We made him get a digital beat bug for his snare and it straightened him out in two weeks. He saw the problem immediately on the read out. He still thanks me for this years later. |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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Andy Greatrix
From:
Edmonton Alberta
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 5:46 am
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When I used to play bass full-time, I ended up with tendonitus trying to keep drummers from slowing down. It's even worse when you have to sing like a metronome. If you back phrase, the drummer will follow you.
These days, I work with an electric drummer. They don't replace a good drummer, but they are a lot better than working with a bad one.
(So many drummers, so little time!) |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 5:53 am
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| Thats funny. A drummer that follows a back phrasing singer. I love it. They're out there in droves. I remember when I was being jazz trained as a kid. My drum teacher was a Broadway show drummer. He always taught me in three speeds, always with a metronome. If I made just one mistake in the Stone's Rudiments book he would stop the metronome and remind me how much my parents were paying for me to keep time accuratly. It was a great foundation. |
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Larry Strawn
From:
Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 7:02 am
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I played bass for years, good drummers were a joy, and fun to work with, you could really get a groove going. The other ones would work me to death over a nights time! 
_________________
Carter SD/10, 4&5 Hilton Pedal, Peavey Sessions 400, Peavey Renown 400, Home Grown Eff/Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY" |
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Aled Rhys Jones
From:
Berkeley, CA
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 8:19 am
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A pain indeed...
The difference between a drummer and a drum machine?
You only have to punch the information into a drum machine once. |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 9:42 am
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Kevin,and Michael...Lets see a drummer who drags,and a Bass player who doesn't know the changes,got to experience both of those this past Sunday at an Elks lodge jam.I would rather have someone put a steak knife in my eyeball!
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 9:44 am
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| I used to work with a drummer, in a swing band, who would speed up after each solo. If you were the last soloist you had to play at hyper-speed. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 10:10 am
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| Quote: |
| Anyone ever play with a drummer who drags his snare hits behind the bass? |
Oh, yeah. I would think it's harder to find someone who hasn't played with such a drummer.
My experience is that this happens especially often with drummers who try to play too much stuff and don't have the chops to keep up. I suggest they radically simplify, but they rarely take me up on it.
Now - in some styles of music, like a good blues shuffle - the rhythm section is supposed to be "behind the beat". But the bass and drums shouldn't be fighting with each other.
This can also work in reverse - sometimes the drummer will mercilessly push the beat. I notice this mostly with drummers that have good chops but get bored and restless, and want everything to get more zippy, regardless of what the song or anybody else is doing. For example - bebop-capable drummers playing in a lumpty-lump blues band - yikes, it can get painful. |
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Andy Greatrix
From:
Edmonton Alberta
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 10:56 am
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I find that some of the best drummers
are guys who sing.
There is a difference beween drummers
who want to play the song (tell the story) as opposed to drummers who just want to play their drums. |
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 11:07 am
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Been there done that ..sometimes still do .. 
Even worse is a singer "rhythm guitar player/spanker/keeping time with his pick like a coffee house singer that never worked ensemble" , who since they only know 1st position major & minor & 7th chords & maybe a diminished, and then capo for everything else.. that make up their own changes to a classic tune 'cause they can't hear or "don't like" the actual changes.
How in the name of everything groovy do you follow a half-a@@ed player like that
edited a couple times 'cause I am a challenged speller
_________________
Bo Borland
Rittenberry SD10 , Derby D-10, Quilter TT12, Peavey Session 400 w/ JBL, NV112, Fender Blues Jr. , 1974 Dobro 60N squareneck, Rickenbacher NS lapsteel, 1973 Telecaster Thinline, 1979 blonde/black Frankenstrat
Currently picking with
Mason Dixon Band masondixonband.net
Last edited by Bo Borland on 3 Oct 2007 3:02 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Michael Winslow
From:
San Francisco, California, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 4:56 pm
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Here's a variation on that old t-shirt I used to see people wearing.
So many drummers.....so little time! |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 6:41 pm
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Bob Ritter
From:
pacfic, wa
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 7:52 pm
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I guess if you want to be a better musician learn to play the drums...if you want to be a better drumer take dance lessons...that is who they keep time with...lol
_________________
Let's go catch a steelhead |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 10:34 pm
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Think I had rather play with one you have to chase,than one you have to PUSH all night,that will wear you out after four or five hours,don't you know.
_________________
Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 10:43 pm
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On the other hand,there is NOTHING better than playing with a drummer and bass that locks in together AND have good meter.I don't play drums or bass,But IMO,they are the two most IMPORTANT members of any band,but NEVER tell them that,or you will be in troubledon't you know.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 2 Oct 2007 11:28 pm
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| Charles, I totally agree. The first thing I look for in players is timing. I have been fortunate to only allow myself to play with good bass players and drummers. If you don't have good bass and drums, you have nothing. The problem is that alot of incompetent players gravitate towards bass and drums. When you find a good one its an exception. |
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 3 Oct 2007 3:13 am
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JimC .. I followed that thread.. the problem is the chord challenged picker is the boss.
I really like the guy, just don't like to play with him anymore. Years ago the bass player & I taught him how to be a competent band player but .. he forgot.
"So many drummers.....so little time!" so funny , too true.!
Isn't Time a magazine?
How do you know a drummer is knocking at you front door?
Has anyone ever heard the tapes or read the transcripts of Buddy Rich dressing down his band? It's brutal and he doesn't follow Jim's suggestion not to use the f word more than once or twice.
_________________
Bo Borland
Rittenberry SD10 , Derby D-10, Quilter TT12, Peavey Session 400 w/ JBL, NV112, Fender Blues Jr. , 1974 Dobro 60N squareneck, Rickenbacher NS lapsteel, 1973 Telecaster Thinline, 1979 blonde/black Frankenstrat
Currently picking with
Mason Dixon Band masondixonband.net |
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Jim Hartley
From:
SC/TN
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Posted 3 Oct 2007 3:28 am
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| OK, OK, I've heard all the drummer jokes. The best one though was at a show in Virginia last year. A sign on the door said "Stage entrance, musicians and drummers only" |
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Quesney Gibbs
From:
Anniston, AL
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Posted 3 Oct 2007 5:25 am Drummer
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| A drummer is a guy who hangs around musicians.. |
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 3 Oct 2007 10:57 am
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I am from the old school of thought that the bass player leads the tempo and everyone else picks up on that.
I have played bass for almost 40 years and really, and I do mean really, do everything in my power to keep a constant rythmic tempo that does not change from the opening note to the last pull on the strings. I have had drummers and lead guitarists and other musicians hang on my beat and stop dead cold if and when I suddenly stop picking.
Is this bragging? Not in my mind. I feel that it just confirms to me that the bass is the heart of 99% of country and pop bands. The rest, no matter how good or how famous they are, follow the bass player. |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2007 10:15 pm
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Some of the YOUNG bass players and drummers play well,and then there are some if they are asked to play a shuffle or a walking bass line you get a blank stare,a while back a local country singer called me to work a gig with him,he had this kid playing drums,[this was hard to the core classic country]The singer called the first tune,I turned to the drummer and said count it off,he said what do you mean,I said just click the tempo off with your sticks so we can all come in together,He did'nt have a clue what I was talking about,I thought to myself,Charlie your screwed tonight,And I was.Oh well got paid anyway don't you know.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2007 6:49 am
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| I like the drummers who play nervous,rush and call it "Having energy".I call it "Having blow". Luckily in L.A. you can set out a can of tuna and have a dozen good out-of-work drummes at your doorstep so there's no excuse for not having a good drummer around here. |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2007 9:47 am
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Michel,Wish That was the case here,The band I'm working with now[Classic country,50's and 60's]While getting the band together tried several drummers,It should have been a felony what they did on a drum kit,Finally found one that could actually play,but he scares the hell out of me,he has'nt missed a gig YET,but always shows up about ten minutes before show time.I'm from the old school that believes in showing up at least an hour before show time,set uped tuned uped and readdy to play.There are about three REAL drummers in the area,but have had the same gigs for years.Don't have much to chose from,It's almost as bad with bass players as well,don't you know.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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