Intonation Problem E9

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 1 Oct 2007 9:13 am

I changed strings on my Franklin about a month ago and have had a strange problem on the 6th string for the last few weeks. If I tune the string open (with a good tuner), it sounds fine. When I'm using the bar, the string is very sharp. To compensate, I have to tune with the bar which is kinda strange. I loosened the string and moved the roller at the nut but no change. I didn't have a spare .20 to swap out and will try that. I've never had this happen on all my steels and a lot of years!

thx

bob

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 1 Oct 2007 9:15 am

change the string

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 1 Oct 2007 9:29 am

Tony Prior wrote:change the string

Yes, sir

bob

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 1 Oct 2007 9:40 am

If you buy strings in batches, and the wire was not right when it was manufactured, usually the whole lot will be bad. I've had that happen, and had to toss the lot. Sometimes it takes a while to get through the batch.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 1 Oct 2007 10:08 am

I've had it happen, too. I thought I must be crazy till the dealer I bought the strings from confirmed that the manufacturer had acknowledged a bad batch.

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 1 Oct 2007 10:40 am

I switched brands and noticed that I had to re-tune the nylons.. way more than usual. I assumed that the strings were made differently. I trashed the new strings, sold the rest, and went back to my usual brand.
The same thing applies to regular set changes.
Some pickers boast that their steel never breaks a string and haven't changed them in months or even years. Strings go dead, lose sustain, tone & then will not tune true.

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 1 Oct 2007 12:34 pm

I picked up a few ernie ball .020's today. I'll report back later.

bob

Tommy Roten · Post by **Tommy Roten** » 2 Oct 2007 4:58 am

The same thing happens with my 3rd string after a while, usually after three gigs or so. I tune it open, but the higher I go on the frets, the sharper the string gets(together with the 4th string of course). I have a Franklin too by the way.

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 3 Oct 2007 4:59 pm

New string, different brand, same problem.

Ideas?

thx

bob

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 3 Oct 2007 5:33 pm

Bob, what happens if you tune with no pedals? Then move up the neck never engaging any pedals or knee levers? .......bb

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 3 Oct 2007 9:43 pm

Bob, it is possible that the wire came from the same source, even in different brands. If it's a big bad batch, it might have an affect for a while.

I corrected the problem a long time ago by switching to a wound 6th. That took care of everything. The travel is longer, but it's not a hard trade-off.

Henry Nagle · Post by **Henry Nagle** » 3 Oct 2007 9:58 pm

I think you should change all of your strings. Sometimes a new string in the midst of old ones will sound funnier than a whole set of dead strings.

If you play regularly, one month is a fairly long life for a set.

Everyone's different though. I know I tend to wear them out pretty fast.

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 3 Oct 2007 10:27 pm

Bobby Boggs wrote:Bob, what happens if you tune with no pedals? Then move up the neck never engaging any pedals or knee levers? .......bb

The 6th string goes very sharp... No pedals. Very noticeable against string 8 and confirmed with a very nice Seiko meter. Must be something else?

thx

bob

(Mikey D.: First string was Frankin brand, second Ernie Ball)

Paul Redmond · Post by **Paul Redmond** » 7 Oct 2007 12:22 am

Why isn't the world using George L's Stainless strings??
PRR

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 7 Oct 2007 3:37 am

Because some of us think GHS Boomers sound better?

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 7 Oct 2007 5:47 am

Paul Redmond wrote:Why isn't the world using George L's Stainless strings??
PRR

I just tried a George L SS .020, Same problem

bob

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 7 Oct 2007 6:26 am

Unless that 020 is a wound string, it is NOT STAINLESS, even tho the label might say so. It is plain old music wire. All plain strings are basically made from the same material, as we've often discussed here. The difference among string brands is the material and process used for the wound strings. Stainless or nickel designations refer only to the material wrapped around the core. There should be no difference between 020P (plain) strings from a set of nickel and a set of stainless steel strings.

I agree that the huge plain string -- by FAR the largest diameter of any plain strings or the core of any wound string -- is a mixed blessing. Paul Franklin, for example, has used it to his advantage -- lowering it two whole tones to E and raising a minor third (three half tones) to B. I doubt this would be possible, even with mechanical wizardry, with a wound string.

A wound sixth works great for a simple E9 setup. If you need to raise or lower G# a whole tone or more the throw is VERY LONG. There are mechanical measures that can make the throw shorter but none I'm aware of are commercially available on new guitars. I play a U-12 and need both a whole tone raise and lower. I've tried a wound sixth and can barely to get it to work with the Fessenden changer, but the throw was so long -- even on the B pedal -- that I went back. THE WOUND SIXTH DOES SOUND BETTER and TUNE BETTER, but it just won't work for some of us.

That's my take on it. I have no clue why your guitar is doing this BUT suspect it's related to the fact that this string, being by far the largest diameter plain string (or core for wound) will change pitch more dramatically with changes in temperature or tension. I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut it won't happen with a wound 020 or 022.

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 7 Oct 2007 6:30 am

Thanks, Larry

Paul Sr. has no idea either! I have been trying different tube preamps lately vs my old Roland GP-100 and wonder if the tubes are showing a problem that may have been there for a long time?

bob

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 7 Oct 2007 6:59 am

Bob, your problem could be the string, or strings, that you're using as a reference as you go up the neck.

Wound strings collect dirt and grime in the windings from our hands. This causes the string to, not only sound dead, but to have uneven weight along it's length...which in turn, causes it to intonate incorrectly.

But, I suspect you need a whole new set of strings...especially if this problem has not happened before.

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 7 Oct 2007 7:14 am

Mike Wheeler wrote:Bob, your problem could be the string, or strings, that you're using as a reference as you go up the neck.

Wound strings collect dirt and grime in the windings from our hands. This causes the string to, not only sound dead, but to have uneven weight along it's length...which in turn, causes it to intonate incorrectly.

But, I suspect you need a whole new set of strings...especially if this problem has not happened before.

I'm starting to think you are right. My reference has been comparing it against the 8th string up and down, especially at the 12th. I got to thinking this morning that maybe the 8th string has the problem! The guitar is not here so I'll check later. I've never had a problem with Franklin strings. (this is a brand new set)

bob

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