I found my stolen sho-bud on ebay What shoul I do?San- Fran!

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 25 Sep 2007 9:15 am

(double post)

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 25 Sep 2007 9:17 am

So you think he knows nothing about steel guitars, but was savvy enough to monitor the Forum to be aware of all your friends looking out for you?

He presumably paid something for this guitar and is willing to just send it off to you, at no compensation, just because you said it was yours? I'd ask for a shipment tracking #...

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 25 Sep 2007 9:49 am

Why wouldn't the police help? Isn't that what they're supposed to do?

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 25 Sep 2007 10:14 am

I wrote the guy early this morning, telling him I was interested and wondering what year it was. My hope was for him to supply me with the SN instead as I guessed there was little chance he would know the year.
I did not post about it here, because I feared he could be reading the Forum.

Anyway, it's all over now.

Here is his answer, which just came in:

Dear J-D. I ended the listing it turned up stolen

So yes, it seems you are a lucky one after all!

... J-D.

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 25 Sep 2007 10:21 am

Mike Perlowin wrote:Why wouldn't the police help? Isn't that what they're supposed to do?

I'm sure an out-of-state phone-caller with no positive proof of ownership doesn't get put on what you'd call "the fast track"...

I hope it all works out for real for you Alex, like Jim Cohen seems to be saying, I'll believe it when I see it.

Let us all know how it ends up!

(too bad there isn't a "we're rooting for you" smiley face...)

Post by **Joey Ace** » 25 Sep 2007 10:41 am

Why wouldn't the police help? Isn't that what they're supposed to do?

You would hope, but the reality is they exist to generate an income for the city. A lot of revenue generating tickets could be issued in the few hours it would take to follow up on Alex's leads.

Also, no voter goodwill toward their elected bosses would be generated by helping an out-of-towner.

We'll keep our fingers crossed for you, Alex!

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 25 Sep 2007 10:56 am

well i know the cops DO retrieve stolen items from music stores and pawn shops, because once i was in a music store when a cop came in to do so...filled out some forms and took the guitar with him. So its not like they are too busy writing tickets or tazering college students to ever be bothered. Not sure what the threshold is that prompts them into action tho..?

Alex Piazza · Post by **Alex Piazza** » 25 Sep 2007 11:00 am

I just wanted to let everyone know that Adrian has been very easy to deal with, and seems like a descent person that is trying to do the right thing. Ill post later with the outcome.

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 25 Sep 2007 11:02 am

Hey Joey,sometimes finger crossin ain't enough.

Daryl Stogner · Post by **Daryl Stogner** » 25 Sep 2007 11:06 am

Alex,

I was a cop for 25 yrs in Calif. The eBay seller was in possession of stolen property, 496.1CA Penal Code a felony. He'd better return it to you or you can file criminal charges against him and bypass SFPD. Contact the D.A.'s office and ask to speak with a D.A. investigator. When dealing with any law enforcement agency and you're not having any luck. Ask to speak with the Division Commander or Deputy Commander. Priorities might just change and probably will. If they aren't there ask to speak with the Watch Commander. The uniform cops will handle it and be eager to recover the property and hook the guy up. They live for that stuff.

Just info so you'll know if needed. Glad you might be getting your steel back!

Daryl

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 25 Sep 2007 11:39 am

Contact John Coop about getting a replacement pedal rack.
Glad it's comin' home. No the feeling of loss. I had my 1958 Gibson Flying V stolen many, many, years ago. I coulda bought a condo in Florida with it now!

Dean Richard Varga · Post by **Dean Richard Varga** » 25 Sep 2007 1:38 pm

Congratulations Alex,

I can hear your playin' that Sho-Bud already!

If your reading this Adrian, "I was just joking about the two bit hustler thing I tell ya' and thanks for returning the mans ax....your a good egg!

regards

Dean

Henry Nagle · Post by **Henry Nagle** » 25 Sep 2007 4:20 pm

I'm glad that it's working out. It's nice that the guy's turning out not to be a jerk, too.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 25 Sep 2007 8:35 pm

As someone who has worked in San Francisco for over 20 years I am appalled at the lack of response by SFPD. What do we pay them for if they don't respond to cases that are handed to them on a plate? They seem only too anxious to turn up with four or five police cars to move on the homeless people who are doing nothing more than trying to survive...

On behalf of the people of San Francisco I would like to apologize to you for the way you have been treated. It represents a complete reversal of the hospitality that this city is known for. Most of the residents of San Francisco are not local, they have moved here from many miles away, because they enjoy the international atmosphere and culture, the Mediterranean climate, the beauty of surroundings. I, myself, moved 5,500 miles to be here. There's no place like it. But there are greedy people everywhere who prey on the innocent, and unfortunately you and your band have fallen victim to the worst of society. Just don't judge San Francisco for the worst of its residents. Most people here are good and hospitable. This is the city where everyone, no matter what his accent, is treated as a local, because there are no indiginous people left !

Henry Nagle · Post by **Henry Nagle** » 25 Sep 2007 10:32 pm

Right! We're all in Sonoma County!

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 26 Sep 2007 7:15 am

[quote="Alan F. Brookes"]As someone who has worked in San Francisco for over 20 years I am appalled at the lack of response by SFPD. quote]

Alan. You should to listen to talk show host Michael Savage. He keeps the entire USA informed about what is wrong with "San Fransicko" as he calls it. SanFran is not the city it once was.

Neither is Atlanta where I live.

Jeff Hyman · Post by **Jeff Hyman** » 27 Sep 2007 5:39 pm

I'd contact him on eBay and tell him you want to buy it... but you'd like to play it first. Meet him in SF with a friend and a hidden camera. I personaly would probably whip his ass to a pulp and ask questions later. I have a short fuse for liars and thiefs.

Eric Jaeger · Post by **Eric Jaeger** » 28 Sep 2007 12:04 pm

Bill Hatcher wrote: You should to listen to talk show host Michael Savage. He keeps the entire USA informed about what is wrong with "San Fransicko" as he calls it. SanFran is not the city it once was.

Neither is Atlanta where I live.

I'm sorry, but I am one of those rare natives of the city of San Francisco (born in Presbyterian Hospital), and I take some offense at that statement. I wouldn't rely on Michael Savage to tell the weather if it was raining on him.

San Francisco is all that Alan pointed out, and I hope that any of you who visit enjoy all it has to offer.

-eric

Mike Winter · Post by **Mike Winter** » 28 Sep 2007 12:55 pm

What Alan and Eric said...San Francisco is an awesome, one-of-a-kind city.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 28 Sep 2007 8:29 pm

Well if Savage said it, then we must accept it as gospel...

A week from today begins the completely FREE Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival.

Check out the acts here: www.strictlybluegrass.com

There ain't nothin' like this goin' on, not only in the United States, but maybe the world!

I'm bummed about the SFPD's approach, or lack thereof, to Alex's situation, but beyond that, they don't call San Francisco "the city that knows how" for nothing!

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 29 Sep 2007 5:19 am

"old child, young child feel alright on a warm San Franciscan night..."

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 29 Sep 2007 6:54 am

What happened to Tony Bennetts Heart? Isn't it still in Frisco?...

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 29 Sep 2007 7:37 am

Well, you could go today and enjoy the "Leather Festival!"

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 29 Sep 2007 7:41 am

The police not responding is what does not make sense to me. I do not understand at all them blowing you off, unless you didn't file a report when it was stolen. If you didn't then that was a huge mistake. But if you did and had the case number, you just work up through the ranks if necessary. eBay appearance of stolen items are actually pretty common occurrences and the police normally handle them easily assuming you filed a report.

Of course, reporting it to eBay is also important in any case like this.

The earlier posted comment about the current owner being "out of luck" for owning a stolen guitar is not right. If he KNEW it was stolen or had any connection to the thief then yes, he's in deep trouble - what Daryl posted from the penal code applies, and "knowingly" is part of the law in every state.

But if he innocently bought the guitar (meaning he did NOT know it was stolen)he does NOT just have to give it back - each state has different laws regarding property entitlement. Some require the new owner (no matter how any times it's been sold) to simply return it, and he has to sue the original thief for restitution.

In other states, once it has been sold to a party that does NOT know it's stolen, they receive legal title, and you (or your insurance company) have to buy it back.

I've had instruments stolen as have several friends, and they (being in states where title transfers) bought the instruments from the current owners at a very good price - usually people will sell them back for less than they paid because otherwise they THINK they may end up in jail for possessing stolen goods.

In my case, the new owners gave them back because the police had slight suspicions of a connection between the thief and the new owners, and they wanted out of the situation as easily as possible; the police convinced them that returning the guitars would mean no further investigation (and this was a nasty one - two expensive Martins and an interstate movement of them, so the feds were involved). I was very lucky - but I had to reimburse the insurance company.

A little sidebar - everyone should insure their instruments. Your homeowners policy does not cover them 99% of the time, which most players do not realize. Most musicians I know use Clarion - the specialize in instrument insurance, and cover them at gigs as well. And if your instrument has no serial number, make sure you have plenty of pictures of any unusual or identifying elements.

Anyway - even if the current owner is an innocent party, you don't always just get it back and he loses what he paid. It depends on the state...honestly, I'm not sure what the California law is but I'll ask my attorney just for the heck of it.

[/quote]

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 29 Sep 2007 9:44 am

I'm not an attorney, but I do have a qualification in Mercantile Law in England. You might think this irrelevant, but it's not, in that any legislation passed in England prior to Independence still applies in the United States, and British Common Law is the basis of US law.

Under British Common Law, if a person buys stolen property at an Open Market, not knowing it to be stolen, he has better title to it than the thief (who of course has no title), as Jim says. The buyer has no obligation to return the stolen merchandise. Some states have passed legislation since independence which over-rides common law, and some have not.

There's a further problem in San Francisco in that California was never a British colony, and in terms of common law relates back to Spanish law. The deeds for my house, for instance, refer, in Spanish, to the Ranch granted by the Mexican authorities.

This not being a federal crime, I hope you get your guitar back by negotiation, because an attorney will cost you more than a new guitar.

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I found my stolen sho-bud on ebay What shoul I do?San- Fran!

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