Open slot on the 2007 HSGA Joliet Schedule -Someone grab it!

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 19 Sep 2007 6:47 pm

There is an open slot in the HSGA Joliet 2007 schedule.

Thursday 3:35 PM.

Here's your chance to play the steel guitar in front of a room filled with steel guitarists - a room filled with people who have the same records at home that you have on your shelves. These are the same people who know when "the hard part of song" is about to come up...

$:\$

Honestly... the HSGA crowd is a very supportive, accepting group. If you play the steel guitar and you get up on stage, you will be respected and welcomed into the family.

Someone grab that slot!

You must be a member in good standing (dues paid up) of the HSGA to perform on the main stage.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 19 Sep 2007 7:40 pm

How much does that gig pay??

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 20 Sep 2007 2:17 am

Gerald R-I believe my dues are paid up and I am planning to be there on Thursday but I am quite lacking in any Hawaiian repertoire and could only play something that would not fit into the theme of the convention-One reason I come to the HSGA Joliet show each year is to hear the kind of playing that is the real roots music of the instrument I love-HSGA gives players of Hawaiian style in all skill levels from beginner to professional the opportunity to get up and play-I am primarily a pedal steel player-Although I started on lap steel high "A" tuning taking lessons from a teacher who played Hawaiian style overseas during WWII those lessons (at age 15) are long forgotten-And I have always found it to be somewhat uncouth when sombody performing at HSGA convention gets up and plays pedal steel or something not in the Hawaiian style of musical format-Therfore I respectfully thank you for the invitation to play-perhaps one of the better traditional Hawaiian style players in attendance scheduled on Friday or Saturday could do an extra set if nobody else can fill the bill-Also I would like to take the opportunity to thank you for all you have done to bring some younger life blood into this club-Guys like you and Rick Aiello have given it a "shot in the arm" so to speak as I destinctly remember attending the show for years before you came along when myself and Doug Smith were the only ones there not yet able to join AARP

And I mean that jokingly as I will be eligible to be a card carrying member in a year or so

edit for spelling errors

Terry Wood · Post by **Terry Wood** » 20 Sep 2007 5:15 am

Well, wish I could come play at it but I teach school to about 500 youngsters and don't get off til 3:35 pm. It might be alittle testy with the rush hour traffic and with the school buses and all.

This would be a great opportunity for you guys, jump on it!

Terry Wood

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 20 Sep 2007 6:40 am

Thanks Paul - I know your heart is in the right place, and thanks for supporting and attending so many Joliet conventions over the years. But let me elaborate a bit on what you had to say about the age of many HSGA members. This is not about your comments Paul - but about a general perceived notion about the HSGA.

Yes, many of the current members of the Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association are above the age of 65. Why does that matter? And why is this fact seen as a negative thing?

I love playing music with these older musicians. Why? Because of the simple fact that these people learned their musical skills before the advent of Rock And Roll. Their musical brains are not influenced (and perhaps tainted) by the sounds of Led Zepplin, Bob Dylan, Metallica and the like. They know how to play the older styles such as 'Swing' correctly. They learned to play Swing during the swing era, not from listening to a baby boomer revivalist on a Jimmy Buffet record.

Many of these older musicians can still play extremely well and we can learn a lot from them.

Why is an octagenerian black blues musician revered and sought after to impart his wisdom and musical skills (no matter how good his skills are).

Why was Tau Moe held in such high regard when he was rediscovered during his later years.

Is seeing an old musician a little too close to home for some? A little too uncomfortable?

Let the flames begin.

p.s. When the HSGA and Aloha International began, the average age of the members was mid 40's (sound familiar?). Funny how time slips away.

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 20 Sep 2007 8:31 am

Many of these older musicians can still play extremely well and we can learn a lot from them.

That's one of the main reasons I like to go to these shows.
Gerald, you make an excellent point about the fact that they learned to play swing during the swing era.
That's the real deal there, and we are very fortunate to be able to hear them perform - and even play with them.
We should treasure these artists, revere and respect them.

But it is nice to be told I'm part of the new generation of Steel Players.
I haven't been part of the new generation of anything since 1964.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 20 Sep 2007 11:02 am

Gerald Ross wrote: Yes, many of the current members of the Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association are above the age of 65. Why does that matter? And why is this fact seen as a negative thing?

In the immortal words of SpongeBob ...

Patrick: It's too bad they're old.

SpongeBob: What do you mean, Patrick?

Old people are the greatest.

They're full of wisdom and experience.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 20 Sep 2007 11:29 am

I guess I qualify for being "old" ... 40/39 (aka 79), but strangly, I don't THINK I'm old even though the reflection in the mirror states otherwise. I do feel I have greatly improved my ability on steel in my senior years although others may not necessarily agree. Yes, when I first joined both clubs, I was eager and young in my forties as were most of my compatriots at the time.

I would dearly love to fill that 'vacant' spot which is available however I no longer have the ambition, 'nor the energy to travel great distances to those 4 day conventions. Being elderly has its' rewards in the fond memories of some of the greatest steel players whom I have ever met, played with, and recorded to enjoy today.

Anyway, it's time for us olde pharts to step aside to make room for some refreshing new younger talent. Have fun. I'll be thinking of y'all

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 20 Sep 2007 11:38 am

It shouldn't be viewed as a negative thing, unless it's the majority, which put's into question the longetivity of an institution when they are no longer 'functioning' members, and the new bloods are few and far between.

I understand that HSGA membership has enjoyed a resent surge in membership, and has regained on what had been a previous decline, and that many of those are 'hopefully' of younger status.

The 'greatest generation' has more to offer than most youngun's will ever be able to fully comprehend, and have already missed out on a lot of what could have been passed on, and will never be recovered.
I always tell those older than me to write 'their' book, to provide personal insight of a history that cannot be reclaimed for further generations, which most never do for various (mostly errant) reasons.

Keoki, how's your book(s) coming along?!

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 20 Sep 2007 1:11 pm

Ron Whitfield wrote:unless it's the majority, which put's into question the longetivity of an institution when they are no longer 'functioning' members, and the new bloods are few and far between.

Hello, my name is Tucker ...

And I'm here to tell y'all not to worry ...

HSGA will be around for a long, long time ...

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 20 Sep 2007 1:26 pm

OMG, Nudity on The Forum

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Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 23 Sep 2007 2:23 am

The word "BUT" negates the words written or spoken that preceed it-attributed to Ole Larsen (founder) The Institute Of Self-Actualization

Darrell Urbien · Post by **Darrell Urbien** » 23 Sep 2007 3:48 am

Gerald Ross wrote:Why is an octagenerian black blues musician revered and sought after to impart his wisdom and musical skills (no matter how good his skills are).

Why was Tau Moe held in such high regard when he was rediscovered during his later years?

Respect?

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 23 Sep 2007 5:23 am

Respect?

My point exactly. Older musicians with years of playing and performing experience should be held in high regard by younger musicians.

Keith Wells · Post by **Keith Wells** » 23 Sep 2007 5:28 am

Yikes.

I'm a beginning steeler, I'm old, and I've been heavily influenced "by the sounds of Led Zepplin, Bob Dylan, ..." Not to mention blues artists like Muddy Waters, Walter Jacobs and all the great harp players.

Is there no hope for me? ha ha

I believe that playing music helps keep me young. And all the generations have plenty to learn from each other. Although it did take me awhile to come to that conclusion.

So maybe I'll come up with a new Swing song, with a little blues influence and maybe some Led Zep and Jim Morrison in there too. What could be wrong with that?

I happen to know that HSGA will grow by at least one member in the near future.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 23 Sep 2007 5:34 am

Paul Warnik wrote:The word "BUT" negates the words written or spoken that preceed it-attributed to Ole Larsen (founder) The Institute Of Self-Actualization

But what does ol' Ole say about Butt ...

Respect

How's this for respect ... I've heard the HSGA called ...

Haole Steel Guitar Association

Hawaiian Steel Geriatrics Association

Here's Some Geritol Association

We are trying hard to overturn the stigma of the HSGA being considered an archaic institution ...

And as a "partying" group ... well ... lets just say last time this guy hung with members of the "Kid's Table" ...

He fell outta an inflatable palm tree in the Dustroom ... and had to be taken to Joliet General for massive head trauma.

Of course his "spin doctors" placed this event in Fiji ...

But we know what really happened ...

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 23 Sep 2007 5:44 am

I'm going to venture to say that most people reading and participating on this forum are over the age of 40.

My question to you is this... Do you really feel you can hang out and fit in with 18 year old kids? 25 year olds?

The 18-25 year olds don't want to hear the music you have to offer.

OK... maybe .0001% of them do.

Duane Solley · Post by **Duane Solley** » 23 Sep 2007 5:53 am

understand that HSGA membership has enjoyed a resent surge in membership, and has regained on what had been a previous decline, and that many of those are 'hopefully' of younger status.

I can understand the desire to know that an institution one cares about will continue beyond one's lifetime, however, I feel that by worrying about the distant future we are missing an opportunity to optimize present day enjoyment. I believe I represent a large group of people who now have the time and sufficiently good health to enjoy some of the things that we always cherished but never had the time to indulge in. I have been playing the steel guitar for almost three years now, and although will never be capable of impressing anyone with any skills, I am thoroughly enjoying the guitar and the camaraderie at the conventions. All new members will benefit from and contribute to the enjoyment of the Steel Guitar regardless of their age or experience.

Darrell Urbien · Post by **Darrell Urbien** » 23 Sep 2007 12:28 pm

I guess what I'm saying is I honestly have no idea what point either Gerald or Rick are trying to make.

Young players are welcome at the convention - but they won't really enjoy themselves and their musical tastes aren't valid?

The majority of HGSA's membership is older and white, but don't call them old white guys?

???

Very confusing to a newbie like myself. Maybe I should just butt-out of the whole conversation.

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 23 Sep 2007 1:24 pm

While the examples are few and far between, there are young folks expressing serious interest in the steel, and I at 52 am very interested in what they (that show promise) are doing. The prime example (so far) being Jeff Au Hoy, who loves the old styles, and incorporates them into a newer viewpoint.
Another young and promising up-and-comer is slack-key wonder, Danny Carvalho, whom as I understand, has taken his abilities to watch and quickly do, as well as his delicate string touch, and transfered it to his new interest, the Hawaiian steel guitar.
I can't wait to see what the future has in store for both of these talented guy's. And there are more and more of them, nowadays. I'd love to hang with them and watch their progress.

The young bunch can greatly benefit from the older folk's perspectives, histrionics, and technical advice, that is fading away with every year. To continue advancing the steel as needed, they need to be procured, welcomed, encouraged, and given as many open avenues to persure their new found paths.

While I won't give the details, I've actually heard of one club member during a recent show denying a youngster's quest to learning the steel. This kid has not been seen since, altho the father has. And while this is no doubt a rare exception to the rule, the attitudes can be found, that those of tender years aren't welcome.

There needs to be a major effort to recruit kids into the fold, as many of them can/will be the future of the steel.
The future now looks brighter than it's been in a long time for the continuence of the steel, and it needs all the help it can get.

The musicaly inclined kids do pick up on good music, of all kinds, when given the chance to hear it, and some will even take up the steel if it's promoted in a generous manner, no matter how old it's musical style is famous for.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 23 Sep 2007 2:33 pm

Darrell Urbien wrote:I guess what I'm saying is I honestly have no idea what point either Gerald or Rick are trying to make.

Simply put ...

I'm tired of hearing that HSGA is just a bunch of dying off "old white men and women" ... who don't do enough to support and promote the Hawaiian steel guitar.

I'm 48 ... and I work my ass off trying to advance steel guitar ... both by invention, restoration and education.

I answer hundreds of emails a year ... fix many folks steels and pickups (for no fee or just the cost of parts) ... try to answer questions posted here to the best of my ability ... and spend countless hours trying to "make better tools".

Gerald and I try to get people involved in HSGA ... young or old ... Pacific Islander or Norwegian ... male or female.

In fact we have quite alittle "discussion" going on within the Board of Directors ... about that very topic.

Young players are welcome at the convention - but they won't really enjoy themselves and their musical tastes aren't valid?

Where did that come from ???

A "Thrash Metal" musician in his early 20's just happened to be staying in the Holiday Inn one year ... and he became a regular visitor to the Dustroom ... and enjoyed the hell out of seeing guys like LT Zinn and Mike Scott "tear it up" on stage ...

The majority of HGSA's membership is older and white, but don't call them old white guys?

Call us what you like ... but just don't call me a Haole

(joke from the past).

While I won't give the details, I've actually heard of one club member during a recent show denying a youngster's quest to learning the steel.

Why not give details Ron ?

Why just say it's a "club" member ?

Make the individual look like a fool ... not the organization.

We've been through all this many times ...

And I still can't get a straight answer as to why some individuals "have it in" for HSGA ... ???

the attitudes can be found, that those of tender years aren't welcome.

Again, please elaborate.

Everyone I have ever associated with in the HSGA is thrilled to see "new blood" ... 18 or 80 ...

You guys apparently know something that I don't ... so please ... educate me ...

And I ain't tryin' to argue ... just the opposite ... I really want to know.

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 23 Sep 2007 5:03 pm

Please excuse my poor writing skills in the previous posts on this thread.

Let me clarify:

I too am sick and tired of the HSGA frequently being attacked on the topic of the age of many of our members.

These attacks don't often appear in print on this or the HSGA talk forum but I've been witness to many unkind remarks at music conventions I've attended and in casual conversation.

My point... and let me see if I can get it across more clearly now, is:

What do the attackers hope to achieve when they criticize? Do they want the membership of the HSGA and audience to be filled solely with a demographic under the age of 30?

It's not going to happen.

It's not going to happen at the Joliet convention, and it doesn't happen at Scotty's convention nor at the Dallas convention. The demographics at Scotty's and Dallas are pretty much the same spread of ages as at Joliet.

And if most of the people on this forum are over the age of 40 - I ask you... when you play in public, what is the age of your audience? Are they 18-22 year olds? I doubt it.

It's wonderful that a young person like Jeff Au Hoy is spreading the word about the steel guitar and performing in public. A guy like Jeff has more clout and coolness factor with the 20 somethings than any 45-60 year old could ever have.

And yes, if a bus load of 20 year old steel guitar fanatics (or one 20 year old) showed up at the Joliet convention they would be welcomed with open arms. In fact they would most likely be showered with gifts of LP's, picks, strings etc. from the "older" members who want to see the art form continue and would be overjoyed that young people are interested.

Many guests who are not there specifically for the HSGA stay at the Joliet Holiday Inn during the convention weekend. These people, including many young people invariably "stick their nose" in the door to see what is happening in the main convention room. When this occurs the curious people are always invited in to listen to some music and have a look around. In fact a few years ago a group of roadies for a big Rock band that was playing in the Chicago area stayed at the hotel. I personally welcomed them into the main room. They had a blast (they couldn't believe the number of vintage instruments in one place). The were very bummed out that they had to work that evening and couldn't participate in the jam sessions.

~~~~~~~~~~~
Styles:
I don't care much for Rock music. Rock and Roll and R&B from the 1950's and early 60's, now that's a different story. But the sounds of Led Zeppelin and the lyrics/musicianship of Neil Young, Bob Dylan etc. do nothing for me.

Now if someone wants to record a version of 'Cowgirl In the Sand' or 'Communication Breakdown' with a Steel guitar... more power to them. In fact, if they are a member of the HSGA I will create a webpage for them ON THE HSGA WEBSITE to showcase their accomplishments.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 23 Sep 2007 7:58 pm

Hey GB!! Nothing wrong with your writing skills, or you ideas for promoting and keeping the HSGA alive and well. The first time I went to Joliet I was welcomed and made to feel at home.
In fact ,you are the first one I met!!
I agree with your views on the age of the members etc.
Also, many younger people are too busy working etc to get to conventions like they may want to.
Getting younger people interested isn't very easy. Besides, what age is "old"?

We are like like a lot of groups that want to get others to be able to enjoy our passion.
We are fortunate to have the younger guys from Hawaii and other places, as well as the talented seniors that are the regulars at the conventions.

BILL

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 23 Sep 2007 9:17 pm

If most of that was directed at me (and I hope not), I simply feel my last post was much more positive hopefullness than any kind of attack, as I certainly don't have it in for the HSGA. I've expressed my feelings here, as in the past and hoped for the best for the future. I think it's slowly coming around towards a better situation for all, and let's leave it on a sweeter note than getting defensive and putting up the dukes. We're all working towards the same end, and there's no great point in singleing one person out by name, per my one not so happy paragraph, as it's the exception, not the norm.

If it's not a goal for the HSGA to enlist many young folks, then it may indeed be a bleak future for the club, and that would be an even bigger shame, as it's probably one of the most important ways to promote the organization, and the steel.

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 23 Sep 2007 9:28 pm

Gerald and Rick-I meant NO DISRESPECT to the HSGA,Senior Citizens,those of the Great Generation, or anything like that-I thought I was paying a compliment but again my words are taken as offensive-I deal with older folks routinely in my job and I would not have kept it for 27 years if I were disrespectful of senior individuals-Gerald I feel my response to your post has been blown out of proportion-It seems to be something that is happening on the Forum alot lately-I don't see HSGA convention as "Religion" or anything that has to change-I personally have had my interest in HSGA increase in the last few years because of meeting a few more players of my generation and if that is a bad thing then I may as well not continue my membership paying dues for the newsletter-Lets lighten up and have some fun thats what I was looking foreward to-PW